Free Server - Doppelganger

[Doddler]

While the kRO web site hasn't posted news yet, several korean gaming news sites are reporting that gravity intends on opening a second free game server, only 3 weeks after the initial launch of 'Baphomet', their first free server.

The new server will be called 'Doppelganger', and have the same mechanics of the Baphomet server. On the free game server the game is free to play, but experience and drop rates are reduced. Improved efficiency and other items can be purchased from the item mall. Word has it that gravity plans on opening the new server on the 11th of June if there are no problems.

[Pa.rabola]

Did Baphomet fill up with people that quickly? To be wanting to implement a second server, I mean.

[Doddler]

Word has it that Baphomet broke 10k users online, which caused some serious server issues.

[rikai]

10k... So... Whens iRO gonna get a clue and open a free server too? :P

I'd stick to the paid server, and have the game secured for another few years, of course. :D

[lcronovt]

10k o.o woa!! When iRO open his own ? >.>!! I need it.

[Terpsichore]

I still think that they are worse tha private servers.

[Danny]

Damn. I wish iRO would move on this. It would help immensely.

[soldit]

rRO-like subscription premiums for iro, please!

[Sobolek]

Though ruRO has normal rates for non-premium users... +50% exp/drop rate for premium subscribers.

[Cubical]

Word has it that Baphomet broke 10k users online, which caused some serious server issues.
cant they put a server cap on that?

i remember loki and chaos having to handle 10k people, it isnt fun

[Feint]

cant they put a server cap on that?

i remember loki and chaos having to handle 10k people, it isnt fun

It wouldn't be too customer-friendly to have the login server tell you you can't play while 10,000 others can. If Baphomet really is so popular the limit of 10k people is reached too often, opening another F2P server seems reasonable.

...why can't iRO and/or euRO open F2P servers before it's too late :confused:

[asmodeal]

cant they put a server cap on that?

i remember loki and chaos having to handle 10k people, it isnt fun

I remember it too, but it was during beta2, the world is a lot bigger now.

[Nibbles]

Makes me wonder how many of them are bots...

[13attle]

Just because there are over 10k people on it, it doesn't means everyone is spending money.

Remember it's:

10k people pending money = profit

Not:

10k bot/freeloader = profit

[Feint]

Considering how hard it is to create accounts for kRO, the amount of bots should not be very high. And keep in mind everyone can just have one account.

[Doddler]

When I played on the kRO Free server, it was pretty well bot free... its so hard to make kRO accounts if you don't have korean identification that bots can't really get on in any real numbers.

[Nibbles]

Of course, how would you then apply that thought to iRO? If you allow people to make and maintain a "free" account, zeny-sellers/bot-farmers couldn't be happier, I'd think; we'd probably see bots running around Bio 3........

[Pa.rabola]

The GMs would have to be more on top of things for sure. It's probably not a good idea to put a free server in iRO until better means of handling bots can be used.

People also need to realize that the Kafra Shop has helped iRO immensley money wise. The majority of people use it pretty regularly. Also iRO =/= kRO. kRO already had a higher population of players than iRO did. Of course their free server would turn up results better. With our mass amounts of free, high rate psevers, who the hell would change from those to one of these?

[chocolate]

A lot of people play low rate private servers to get as close to the iRO experience as they can. many of them are just put off by the fact that they have to pay money to play a game they could play for free. They also dont want to join a server that already has established guilds and other things, because theres no way they could ever catch up. If iRO opened a free server, I think it could draw a lot of these lowrate pserver players.

[My Mother]

Whoa whoa. There's lowrate, then there's long long empty space, then there are official rates. And a rock's throw beyond that are official free servers.
I wouldn't count of any massive influx of new players from pservers...

[Inferno Nightblade]

True. Even lowrates have experience rates much higher than iRO main servers, or even what iRO Sakray had. (Well, not MUCH higher, but 5x is considered lowrate.) And considering the servers have been hamster-powered for a while (though I think that the last issue was more the fault of Cogent?), I'm not sure if the profits are THAT great.

[alllucky7s]

I think they'd probably get a really really high population peak in the first days then go down to nothing, based on the fact that I would try the server and quickly quit because I'm a lazy player and can't play anything lower than 5x (yes, I play pservers) and on what I've read on the most visited spanish fansite.

Let them make it, just don't let them make two of them and then merge them into one, that would look pretty noobish from the company ruling one of the most played mmorpgs out there.

PS. That was plenty of "thems" in that last sentence.

[Cubical]

It wouldn't be too customer-friendly to have the login server tell you you can't play while 10,000 others can. If Baphomet really is so popular the limit of 10k people is reached too often, opening another F2P server seems reasonable.

...why can't iRO and/or euRO open F2P servers before it's too late :confused:
thats the problem, the more users you pile onto one server, theres a bigger chance of server outage and maps going down randomly

chaos/loki people from iRO back in 2002 understand this all too well

[Zearth]

I think these free servers are to combat Private servers, stealing their fanbase. I also heard they receive huge donations to obtain gods and so on. This is too much for Gravity to ignore. The demand is there while the game isn't worth that much per month. :/

[Terpsichore]

Personally, i prefer to shoot myself than to play on half rates server, with no wings/teleport and 5% exp loss on death, its less painful.

[Tea]

Terp is positive about things as always.

But a free server won't bring a lot of pserver players. Starting anew on half rates, which is like two to 10 times lower than what they are used to, as well as a higher dieing percentage loss, really isnt that fun. And the people who do think official is worth that much time, are not legion.

[Michael Chandra]

Perfect way to test how things really are, though, without asking around on an iRO forum while pretending to be an actual player. Or players who are interested in seeing what the real thing is like, crowd-based.

[Leviant]

actually the F2P settings are more of a challenge, most of us in pRO-Valhalla are already used to the idea of no wings and the pain of -5

but half rates is just sad, we have x1.5 as default :)

[Doddler]

Personally, i prefer to shoot myself than to play on half rates server, with no wings/teleport and 5% exp loss on death, its less painful.

You should read things better. kRO free server has teleport and wings, and regular 1% death penalty.

[Terpsichore]

Well, half rates are still overkill.

[13attle]

it's the only way to get people to buy BM :gg:

Like I said before, 10k freeloader does not means profit, 10k players spending money means profit. Ro is not a charity it's a busness.

[Golden Fingers]

Well, half rates are still overkill.

You need to remember the point of the server isnt for people to play fulltime for their RO life, its to give them a decent go at the game, get hooked and either go to a pay server or pay the premium rates.

Its more a mass advertisment than anything else, and it works quite well.

[Terpsichore]

I can't see how the painful experience of leveling with no gear and at half rates on an insanely overcrowded server can bring any good impression.

[Feint]

I can't see how the painful experience of leveling with no gear and at half rates on an insanely overcrowded server can bring any good impression.

Did you know that a game is usually meant to be played for the fun of it, not for the "lulz i has 27 99 trans chars hauehaua" gayness that RO has become. RO is all about leveling as fast as possible, getting the best possible gears, abusing everything possible to the maximum without even having fun(*cough* iRO anniversary event *cough*), and in the end bragging about your "achievements" in an online game.

The F2P servers, however, support those players too. It's pretty amazing you don't have to pay for your account when you're not active enough due to your real life, and you don't have to feel like you're wasting your (paid) time if you end up sitting a whole day in a town chatting with your friends.

[Soukosa]

There's alot of people out there that can play these MMOs just for the social aspects. Not giving a damn about leveling fast and what not. So what if it'd take them 5 years to hit 99, it wouldn't matter to them.

Just because it doesn't fit your tastes doesn't mean it won't for others. That's honestly something you really need to learn to grasp some time /swt

[Ichigo]

It's funding for the Gravity employee 401k plan :stir:

[Leviant]

"Its a pain to level there, i don't like it"

others have OTHER reasonS for playing the GAME, not just leveling

[Pa.rabola]

Overcrowded? I'd rather have 10k people than the numbers we have now. I remember way back in the day where the community was large and thriving. And it was good times!

[Doddler]

The new server seems much lower population than baphomet. I guess thats to be expected though. Yesterday night, 3pm in korea I guess it was (hardly peak game time), there were 3400 online on baphomet, 750 on doppelganger.

[Humbelum]

do you know something new about the benefits for payed accounts on the f2p server?

[Pa.rabola]

I'm sure if anyone knew anything new, it'd be posted.

[Doddler]

The net cafe bonuses apply to free server as well (+50% exp/drops, -50% death penalty, bonus stats), but otherwise there's no benefit to paying at the moment.

[Foul Play]

iRO cant particularly implement a "korean ID" equivilent due to the fact that iRO is well....international. cant do it using SSN, because not even everyone in the states has one. that doesnt include people that migrated from oRO and other people that live in europe/canada/other parts of the world. as far as bot control on iro goes, its fairly difficult to achieve.

[Anutsu]

RO grinding is tedious enough to reduce by half the exp rate. No one enjoys leveling, what keeps people playing is WoE/MVP/PvP. Stop being so naive, half exp is not going to bring back the old RO spirit where people were helping each other and everyone was not obsessed with their exp/h. It wasn't mean to anyway, they just want players to waste more money in double exp boxes. In the end, half of the players will replace the old monthly subscription fee by exp boxes to level, and the other useless half will stay in Pront complaining about the exp rates.

The most important question is which F2P version would iRO get? There's a lot of differences between kRO F2P and bRO or pRO F2P servers. I would hate to play on a server where you can only get cards via kafrap shop or where there's no wings/b.wings while I wouldn't mind such a server as kRO Baphomet where everything cannot be replaced by $$.

And I have the feeling some people think it's going to be awesome just because it's F2P, come on, it's still the same game, I bet most of you would get bored after hitting level 40. BUT ITS F2P, ME MUST PLAY IT.
What iRO (and euRO!) needs is a PK server, now that would change RO.

[mocharust]

F2P -5% per death + PK

[Terpsichore]

PK server with no kafra shop.

[Golden Fingers]

I can't see how the painful experience of leveling with no gear and at half rates on an insanely overcrowded server can bring any good impression.

Kind of missing the point. Your not competing against players that are at full exp and drop rates, your competing against players at the same rates as yourself.

Your progress and "worth" are only relative to the players around you. You can have MVP cards, uber +9 trans equips and all the rest on the main servers and your considered "acceptable".

Having any carded equips at all on the F2P servers probably grants you a higher status than the previous example. After all your still doing exactly the same thing as you do on a full rate server, its not like your immediately start playing 8 hours a day instead of 4 to "keep up".

[Danny]

Go play WoW if you want a PK server. RO PK would just be full of cloaked sinX's and uber parties of 500+ high end guild members killing 7x noobs hunting a kitty band.

[Ichigo]

Kind of missing the point. Your not competing against players that are at full exp and drop rates, your competing against players at the same rates as yourself.

Your progress and "worth" are only relative to the players around you. You can have MVP cards, uber +9 trans equips and all the rest on the main servers and your considered "acceptable".

Having any carded equips at all on the F2P servers probably grants you a higher status than the previous example. After all your still doing exactly the same thing as you do on a full rate server, its not like your immediately start playing 8 hours a day instead of 4 to "keep up".
this and you can laugh at people who purchase zeny from bots, in an F2P server, only to get banned the next day.

[Pa.rabola]

iRO went through the PK server phase already. And it got shot down my the majority of the community. They brought it up a bit after Iris was introduced. And I bet it'd have about the same population (pre-Sakray merger) or even less.

[Muse]

RO grinding is tedious enough to reduce by half the exp rate. No one enjoys leveling, what keeps people playing is WoE/MVP/PvP. Stop being so naive, half exp is not going to bring back the old RO spirit where people were helping each other and everyone was not obsessed with their exp/h. It wasn't mean to anyway, they just want players to waste more money in double exp boxes. In the end, half of the players will replace the old monthly subscription fee by exp boxes to level, and the other useless half will stay in Pront complaining about the exp rates.

The most important question is which F2P version would iRO get? There's a lot of differences between kRO F2P and bRO or pRO F2P servers. I would hate to play on a server where you can only get cards via kafrap shop or where there's no wings/b.wings while I wouldn't mind such a server as kRO Baphomet where everything cannot be replaced by $$.

And I have the feeling some people think it's going to be awesome just because it's F2P, come on, it's still the same game, I bet most of you would get bored after hitting level 40. BUT ITS F2P, ME MUST PLAY IT.
What iRO (and euRO!) needs is a PK server, now that would change RO.

wrong

pk servers generally unsuccessful in other servers

also, the game would be a different game. f2p = more people = more competition = better woes

this is why this game was fun before, chaos/loki had many competent guilds at one time, now its just 1 strong alliance per server

[Anutsu]

Didn't Doddler post a screenshot with Urdr having like 3 times more people than all the other servers? Not that unsuccessful to me. I don't care about the other servers.

this is why this game was fun before, chaos/loki had many competent guilds at one time, now its just 1 strong alliance per serverIf the game was so much fun back then, why all these competent guilds quit?
Because there's nothing besides WoE, it's always the same monster bashing shit, such a server brings nothing, absolutely nothing new, except more kafra items. Oshit there's a lot of merchants in Prontera and I have to fight with 50 people to kill one Turtle/Sting/Titan/Kasa/Hwiz/whatever, so freaking cool. Let's not even talk about the massive amount of bots and the lagfest in WoE.
At least, a PK server, successful or not, would add something new.

[Pa.rabola]

Time took its toll is all. We don't really have the player base for a new server, PK or not, right now anyways.

[Tigre]

If the game was so much fun back then, why all these competent guilds quit?

Gee, I don't know, it's almost as if RO changed and updated...Like maybe it's not the same anymore like it "used to be"...
I mean, it's ALMOST like time went on and people changed or lost interest.
Now, I know this is a really absurd concept, but I think it does happen from time to time.


Because there's nothing besides WoE, it's always the same monster bashing shit, such a server brings nothing, absolutely nothing new, except more kafra items. Oshit there's a lot of merchants in Prontera and I have to fight with 50 people to kill one Turtle/Sting/Titan/Kasa/Hwiz/whatever, so freaking cool. Let's not even talk about the massive amount of bots and the lagfest in WoE.
At least, a PK server, successful or not, would add something new.

What good is new if nobody uses it? It might as well not exist at all. Sakray was supposed to be RO's test server...you know, for TESTING things...and look how that turned out. It was new at one point and it was different, but look at how that turned out...Shit hardly got tested because nobody played there. OH BUT HEY IT'S DIFFERENT LOOK AT WHAT A CHANGE IT'S MAKING TO THE RO COMMUNITY HURFDURF.
If the community didn't express enough interest, then why add it just so you can shut it down and merge it later? It'd be like putting in another Iris to spread the population out even more. Awesome.

As for the bots/lagfest...We have that shit already and our population is dismal, at best.

[Anutsu]

The community DID express interest. You probably don't remember emperium.org or ragnainfo.net threads about an iRO PK server. They even made a poll on the official site and there was a good part of the population who was interested in playing on such a server.
What I'm saying is, if they're going to open a new server, at least make something NEW, not like Sakray, Iris or a random F2P non PK server. If you leveled/MVPed in a PK environment, you would know what I'm talking about, it adds ~*a bit*~ more to the game than a server with no subscription or double drop.
But yeah let's not take any risk and implement anything because if it's unsuccessful, what's the point of adding something new QQ

[Pa.rabola]

http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/community/polldetail.asp?mNum=6&sno=136&page=3&serOption=&sertext=

The majority wound up being "no," actually.

[Tigre]

Okay, so how long ago did those sites/that poll exist? I know emp.org was around back when the population was actually sufficient enough to be able to spread out to a PK server. Times have changed, my friend. I'd like to have another, more recent poll taken, not because I think either of us would be right or wrong but because I'm genuinely curious to see who is still willing to pay $12/hr to do the same grindfest with the added bonus of the chance to kill/be killed.

edit: Parabola beat me to it. The poll was taken in 2006, a time when the population + updates were different than they are now. Granted, the poll was split pretty closely with anti-PK voters being a little more, but I'd like to see the poll taken again today...and with a better polling system. Aren't the iRO ones a little whacked out? Idk for sure, that's what I heard, though.
end edit

And actually I ~*~have~*~ levelled and done various things in a PK server, so ~*~thank you~*~ for your ~*~assumptions~*~ about ~*~~*~*~*~~*~WhaT i KnoW~*~*~*~*~

I also have experience on WoW PvP servers that actually work.
WoW PvP servers work because A) You don't have the option to kill abso-fucking-lutely EVERYONE in your way...Horde/Alliance works well so that even if you're a noob with no friends on the server or if everyone hates you, you at least have half the server and various zones where you won't get flattened -- and B) because they have the numbers for it. If RO had some kind of faction system (isn't there something like this on kRO or at least planned with Schwartzvaldt Republic / Rune-Midgardt?) and more people to spread between servers, have at 'er, I'll even join, but until then I doubt it would do much good for the community.

But yeah, re: your last line, in your own words...
Yeah, let's take a risk with a dwindling population that's already spread thin across 3 servers, forget the fact that we just merged 2 together because we didn't have enough people to make it worthwhile, and add YET ANOTHER server that we have to pay money for onto this sinking ship...if it's unsuccessful, oh well, at least we tried...12/24/08, right guys?

Oh, but hey, a PK server will also make us forget about all the things they have yet to fix or make function properly...but adding the ability to dick around and kill people while they do the same boring shitfest grind will make us forget all that and the game will be saved, yay! \o/

[Anutsu]

Pa.rabola, I didn't say the majority wanted a PK server, I said a good part of the RO population was interested in such a server. I think we can consider 49% as a good part of the population. I'm also aware it was taken years ago and that's exactly what makes me think it's not as unwanted as some people may think. The PvP aspect is what is keeping most of the old players in RO. Even if it proves me wrong, a poll on that matter would be interesting.

Tigre, you sound like an angry 16 years old kid. That's cute.
The whole thing started with the idea of a F2P server on iRO. I'm not talking about the necessity or the viability of a new server, I for one, don't think it would be a wise idea to add a new server, at least on iRO. But, like I said in my last post, if they're going to open a new server, they should at least open a PK (preferably F2P) one.
Muse, who answered to my first post didn't say "oh come on, we don't have enough players for a new server" (which I would probably have agreed with, although seeing kRO old and new avg population bring some doubts) but he said "a F2P server would be successful while a PK one wouldn't". That's where I disagree with him and that's also why answering my posts with "RO does not have enough players for that" is off topic.
If we have enough people for a normal F2P server like some people here think, we also have enough people for a PK (again preferably F2P) server. And in such a case, I would prefer PK because it would actually bring something new to the game.

[Terpsichore]

f2p and pk won't work, there should be no kafra shop whatsoever on a pk server.

[Tigre]

Tigre, you sound like an angry 16 years old kid. That's cute.

Awww, you're taking my posts out of proportion and trying to talk down to me like an asshole. That's not cute or becoming. Seriously, I'm angry? When did that happen?

The whole thing started with the idea of a F2P server on iRO. I'm not talking about the necessity or the viability of a new server, I for one, don't think it would be a wise idea to add a new server, at least on iRO. But, like I said in my last post, if they're going to open a new server, they should at least open a PK (preferably F2P) one.Like I said, if they're going to open a new server, PK would probably not be the way to go. What I am saying is that in order to get the population up, a F2P server should be the next to spring up, if anything. Yay, are we on the same level yet?

Not only that, but I guess I don't see why they would make a PK server F2P also...Yes, let's get new people here, let them level up on sub-par rates, and then make it even harder by letting other people slaughter them on the way.

Muse, who answered to my first post didn't say "oh come on, we don't have enough players for a new server" (which I would probably have agreed with, although seeing kRO old and new avg population bring some doubts) but he said "a F2P server would be successful while a PK one wouldn't". That's where I disagree with him and that's also why answering my posts with "RO does not have enough players for that" is off topic.
If we have enough people for a normal F2P server like some people here think, we also have enough people for a PK (again preferably F2P) server. And in such a case, I would prefer PK because it would actually bring something new to the game.I disagree. Numbers have everything to do with it, and I highly doubt that if we "have the numbers for F2P, we have them for PK". The whole reason we need the F2P is to attract more numbers because, in case you haven't noticed, we don't have them.
PK would most likely not be the first thing newbies want to focus on...It very likely would not get them hooked to RO and would not make them want to buy a subscription and immerse themselves into the community. This would be the role of a F2P server coming first so that the newcomers can join, get a taste of the game without having to worry about assholes steamrolling them when they're trying to level on sub-par rates, and then if they like it and want the PK or whatever, they can buy the subscription and do what they want. Newcomers have no idea about any of the content...It's all new to them, so the addition of PK wouldn't probably make a shit of difference to them...Meanwhile,the content that is already being added periodically (Nameless, extended classes, etc.) is technically supposed to keep the vets occupied. Whether it does or not is a whole different debate, but I'm going to keep it simple.

Now, let's connect the two a little more clearly.

Something has to come first to lead to the other; in this case, if we put the PK server's creation before the F2P (hypothetically, of course), who would fill it? The existing population. With the existing population, there's a good chance the numbers would be spread too thin and the PK server would get the Sakray and eventually probably shut down and merge due to lack of numbers.
This is not successful.

If we put a F2P server before the creation of PK, we stand a chance of attracting an influx of new faces...If all goes well and they enjoy the game, they subscribe and if PK is their thing, they can join the others who want it as well and ideally, RO would create a PK server for a viable amount of people who want it and under the ideal circumstances, they wouldn't be fucking up the existing servers' populations by spreading it out too much.
This is successful.

If Gravity were smart, I would imagine numbers alone would be the deciding factor on what their next hypothetical server would be. Irrelevant? Hardly.


Edit:

f2p and pk won't work, there should be no kafra shop whatsoever on a pk server.

i think you need to have your own section on this forum where you just vent all your ceaseless complaints because idk about anyone else but i don't think i've ever seen you do much more than bitch ;\

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/ruletheworld/macro/debbie_downer.jpg

[Terpsichore]

Thats not complaint but a valid point, there are already enough pay to win games out there.

[Anutsu]

Tigre, if they implement a PK F2P server, they're not going to open it P2P then implement F2P 6 months later, that's just dumb. Of course, this example serves your theory but let's be more realistic and objective and talk about a server that would be both PK and F2P from day 1.
And in this specific case, there's nothing proving it would be less successful than a normal F2P server.
PK not being newbies friendly? 90% of the population if not more would be composed of iChaos/Loki players and private server players. Sub-par rates?
Who said iRO would use the same rates as kRO Baphomet?
Yep, not everyone likes PvP but a lot of people do and such things as having a pre-trans Geffen GD-like environment on every map for a few monthes, making sure OD2 is a lEgIt pLaCe, taking care of bots by yourself, killing competition at MVPs etc. sounds appealing for a lot of people, especially the ones who are really into competition, i.e the ones who make WoE interesting.

[Soukosa]

If we have enough people for a normal F2P serverWait... what? You're completely missing the point of a F2P server, as is so many other people in these threads. It wouldn't be some new server where all of the current players suddenly move to. It'd be more of the opposite as it would be to attract new players. People that would be playing on it wouldn't be the type of players we have now. It'd be for the people that will play casually and won't do anything near power leveling or going off into PvP to flaunt their e-wang. There is easily a much larger number of people who would play these games just to socialize with people while casually killing stuff.

Why do you think the community seems so nice on kBaphoment when Doddler went there? Because people there aren't overly obsessed with leveling to 99 as fast as they can so they can do 1337 stuff in WoE/PvP/whatever. Again, as I have stated before in all of this non sense, just because you play only for WoE/PvP/whatever doesn't mean everyone else does the same. Personally, I started this game with Juno and have gotten into it to make an extensive database site and yet I still enjoy just kicking back doing things in PvM with friends as well as doing WoE for the joy ride and never touching PvP *gasp* But what does this any of this matter? You're probably still go charging on as the narrowed minded freak that you are. Good job /no1

[Tigre]

I think most of what I'm saying is flying completely over your head and I don't even know what to say in rebuttal because most of what you're saying doesn't make sense or has nothing to do with what I said, or at least as far as I see.

Why would Gravity open a F2P PK server as their next? I'll reiterate since this also seems to have gone over your head...F2P's purpose would be to attract more players. A PK server implemented on the SAME server would make NO sense. It would make more sense to take an existing server or merge the servers together and make another server FOR PK but is NOT for attracting new people. The two would not coexist well, IMO. They serve different purposes and making a server to attract newbies where assholes could kill/frustrate them while they're trying to learn and level up would not be the wisest choice. Do you follow?

PK not being newbies friendly? 90% of the population if not more would be composed of iChaos/Loki players and private server players.
It would? Last I checked, under half the population even wanted a PK server, and that is a 2-year-old poll from when times were better. Where are you pulling these numbers from? Why would pserver players quit their high-rate servers to come get 50% exp and/or reduced/restricted item and gear usage?

Sub-par rates?
Who said iRO would use the same rates as kRO Baphomet?
So what would Gravity do? Implement the same rates as the other servers? HIGHER rates? The point of F2P being restricted is so that you have a reason to put money into the game to improve those conditions so you're on the same level as everyone else. It's the bait to lure people in, to give them a taste of what the game is like, and then hopefully get them hooked enough to find the game worth putting money into. It's not rocket science.


Tigre, if they implement a PK F2P server, they're
And in this specific case, there's nothing proving it would be less successful than a normal F2P server.

Except the poll taken TWO YEARS AGO that said -- even with a larger population than what we have now -- less than half would want a PK server. The other half who don't want PK could feasibly level on the F2P without complaints because they DIDN'T want PK, which means a F2P would be more successful. How else could you work that out?
I would enjoy a PK server, but I wouldn't want it right now either because what we need more than a specialty server for a select group of people is a server that will attract new faces to get the numbers up to perhaps eventually lead to us to be at a more stable population that could support having a PK server.

Yep, not everyone likes PvP but a lot of people do and such things as having a pre-trans Geffen GD-like environment on every map for a few monthes, making sure OD2 is a lEgIt pLaCe, taking care of bots by yourself, killing competition at MVPs etc. sounds appealing for a lot of people, especially the ones who are really into competition, i.e the ones who make WoE interesting.

I'm into competition, I used to only play for WoE (and now WoE2). Don't speak for everyone like you know exactly what every person who would play a PK thinks.
And sure, all of that stuff sounds appealing, but you would only be taking care of bots and O NOES AFK0RZ NURRNURR on that server. Big deal. Bots would just go crowd the other servers that the majority of us play. The AFKers would continue on (they do through mass DBings), if not by finding another map to congregate on, then they would just...again...move to another server and crowd that one instead. Yayyyyy.

In a nutshell, just so you don't miss this much (and it's bolded for emphasis), F2P PK server would be stupid. Making another server for the minority would be stupid, especially at this point, and it's doubtful that a F2P PK server would attract more people than just a plain F2P since the numbers clearly show that the majority does not want a PK server. If the trend kept up, then over half of those new players incoming would most likely not want one, either, but as I said, if enough new people came in to add to the numbers that wanted a PK server, or added to the number of people in general so that it would be okay to break the population up, then a PK server would be a good addition.

:cool:

[Anutsu]

Wait... what? You're completely missing the point of a F2P server, as is so many other people in these threads. It wouldn't be some new server where all of the current players suddenly move to. It'd be more of the opposite as it would be to attract new players.That's pretty much what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the people who are already playing on iRO (we don't have enough players on main servers to begin with) I'm talking about the eventual wave of new players a F2P server would bring. And if we have enough newcomers, veterans, pserver players interested in a F2P server, we would for a F2P PK too.
Yes PK would make some people not willing to join such a server but it would also make some others who wouldn't have joined a normal server join.

Again, as I have stated before in all of this non sense, just because you play only for WoE/PvP/whatever doesn't mean everyone else does the same.I know reading is a hard concept but you might want to read again my previous post and tell me where I implied that everyone likes PvP or WoE.




It would? Last I checked, under half the population even wanted a PK server, and that is a 2-year-old poll from when times were better. Where are you pulling these numbers from? Why would pserver players quit their high-rate servers to come get 50% exp and/or reduced/restricted item and gear usage?
Yes it would. RO is an old game and no matter what kind of F2P server you're going to open, it will be mostly filled with old players. You think you'll suddenly get 5k new Ragnarok players on iRO because of a F2P server? Please.


So what would Gravity do? Implement the same rates as the other servers? HIGHER rates? The point of F2P being restricted is so that you have a reason to put money into the game to improve those conditions so you're on the same level as everyone else. It's the bait to lure people in, to give them a taste of what the game is like, and then hopefully get them hooked enough to find the game worth putting money into. It's not rocket science.Because having PK enabled on leveling maps is already a restriction in terms of leveling, therefore you don't need to lower the exp rate to make people buy more kafra shit? dum dum dum-


and it's doubtful that a F2P PK server would attract more people than just a plain F2P since the numbers clearly show that the majority does not want a PK server.
It's no surprise most of what you're saying is completely flying over my head when you say such things as "numbers clearly show".
As if an iRO poll would be representative of the population of an eventual F2P server, PK or not. How it could be when such a population would partially consist of people who never played/are not playing on iRO at the moment and therefore wouldn't even vote.

[Tigre]

Yes, because I totally am being unrealistic and I actually did say that a F2P would attract 5k new people. Dipshit.

PK is hardly restrictive enough for a F2P server. Why would you pay for the game if paying didn't give you any kind of better incentive? You can still get killed just as if you didn't pay at all. Cow, free milk, etc.
Stupid concept, try again.

As for the numbers, a trend would show that if the existing people who know the game well enough to vote intelligently say that they don't want a PK server, then those noobs who stick around long enough to know the game as well probably won't want it either.
In either case, it's a better guess to say that the majority will probably stay that way rather than saying "OH WELL EVEN THOUGH THE MAJORITY DOESN'T WANT A PK SERVER MAYBE ALL THE NOOBS THAT COME IN AND DON'T HAVE FRIENDS OR GOOD GEAR TO AT LEAST GIVE THEM A CHANCE AT SURVIVAL AGAINST THOSE ALREADY ESTABLISHED WILL JUST LOVE BEING KILLED DURING THEIR GRINDFEST :B"

[Doddler]

Current connected users, Japanese Servers
June 15th, 2008 21:56
(Data collected from character sign in)

World Group 1
1761 : Verdandi
955 : Magni
884 : Surt
1143 : Forsety
942 : Garm

World Group 2
1828 : Tyr
1963 : Idun
2328 : Eir
2589 : Freya
3004 : Baldur
4125 : Chaos

World Group 3
2133 : Thor
2122 : Bijou
2633 : Ses
3181 : Sara
3083 : Fenrir
4000 : Loki

World Group 4
2286 : Lydia
2182 : Tiamet
2360 : Lisa
2682 : Odin
2760 : Heimdal
4164 : Iris

PK Server
525 : Urdr

Server Totals
5685 : World Group 1
15837 : World Group 2
17152 : World Group 3
16434 : World Group 4
525 : PK Server

55633 : Total Connected UsersjRO has aproximately 20+ TIMES the connected users as iRO does... and you can clearly see here that their PK server only has half as many people as our chaos or loki servers (about on par with iris). If you think iRO can support a PK server, you're probably quite wrong.

The point of the free server isn't to attract people from main servers, its to attract people who are on the edge, interested in RO but not particularly interested in paying to have a real go at it (the trial won't give you a real idea of the game), as well as 'idle' users who have quit before and could be brought back to the game (Source (http://www.gameabout.com/news/view.ga?id=21&news_id=15484)).

There's no doubt free servers are successful... Phillipines, China, Mylasia, Taiwan, Thailand all have free game servers, and Russian RO converted its entire service to a F2P system. If you played on kRO Baphomet or Doppelganger, you would know that they do infact bring in money through the shop system. kRO is one of the last to invest into the free game server... the other RO servers are continually expanding thier free server offerings or as Russian RO, completely converting their service to that style. kRO Baphomet did hit server capacity, and had more users of all their other servers combined. While I sort of expect it to average out somewhere lower, I do think that the free server is a valuable asset to gravity... obvously they think so too, because they released a second server just weeks after, when their main servers are continually shrinking.

[WK]

iRO should follow ruRO's plan.

[eyeless]

Not until normal bot-protection system from Gravity. We have around 30-40% of bots.
Max online (WoE time)
Chaos (2.8-3k)
Loki (2.5k)

[Doddler]

Free server or free trial isn't much of a difference for the bots... At least on iRO, they're doing a decent job of owning most bots that show up in numbers... except for those spamming ones.

[Adrilindozao]

The Kro need to make a Sakray Free server, pratically none people play in the p2p. And they need many peoples to try the new things.

[eyeless]

Well, our GMs can't stop the bots at all. As far as I know they stopped to catch low-level bots and try to ban high-level only. Also we have other problems like duping and mass account hacking. Many of our players wants back p2p 8(

[Tea]

kRO Baphomet did hit server capacity, and had more users of all their other servers combined.

Requesting detailed info on kRO population :>

[Terpsichore]

Also, ro classes aren't balanced as the game is oriented for teamplay, for a succesful pk servers, classes should be rebalanced, otherwise it will be full of cloaked edp sb sinx, and thats too much work for gravity.

[Tigre]

Thank you, Doddler.

That's all I have to say.

[Steax]

I know for a fact that on my F2P server, the company owning it pulls in money by amazing loads. People get addicted to kafra shop stuff, and when they get rich they start getting really hooked on. I think this is because here people feel like they had paid as some kind of investment in the ingame economy, not on a paying server where you have to pay just to make a character. It's been successful here, in any case.

Just throwing in something for the discussion. I really don't like flaming. :)

[Anutsu]

The point of the free server isn't to attract people from main servers, its to attract people who are on the edge, interested in RO but not particularly interested in paying to have a real go at it (the trial won't give you a real idea of the game), as well as 'idle' users who have quit before and could be brought back to the game (Source (http://www.gameabout.com/news/view.ga?id=21&news_id=15484)).
And how exactly would a free PK server totally prevent these people from joining? Again, let me quote myself "Yes a free server being PK would make some people not willing to join but it would also make some others who wouldn't have joined a normal free server join".

About jRO numbers, servers are different, what works on a server doesn't necessarily work on another one. Didn't kRO have more people on their P2P PK server than on the normal ones?
Also you're talking a P2P PK server, P2P is restrictive enough, let alone with PK. That's why you need to combine PK with F2P to attract a larger part of the inactive RO players. Probably not as large as a normal free server but still enough to be viable.

[Pa.rabola]

With no Kafra shop, and the PK server being F2P, how would it make money? It wouldn't be worth it to implement it in such a way.

[Anutsu]

There has to be Kafra Shop.

[Terpsichore]

Whats the point of f2p pk server then? Pay to win wouldn't be very appealing.

I think they are already making enough money off a dead game.

[Muse]

you act as if people are out to get ya anutsu. i think a lot of us would want to play on a pk server, just not enough for it to be a real server

the whole idea behind the f2p server releases is that RO is in a low population crisis and it needs more players. whereas f2p brings in players, pk servers don't (as shown by the numbers)

1-2 years ago i remember when the whole pk server hype was going around and there was a lot of support for it. after seeing the numbers, everyone supportive of it saw that it doesnt work and stopped talking about it, i suggest you do the same =/

[Kumoko]

So when are we going to suggest that iRO implements a f2p server with lowered rates and kafra shop? D:

IMO, just making .5% exp and drop rates and maybe making god items harder to make would help balance out the f2p.

Then we'd get some new people saying "oh, this game is addicting." Don't deny it didn't happen to you. ):

[Terpsichore]

Actually, f2p server with heavy exp penalties and kafra shop would make some money for them, like when you get addicted and forced to constantly use kafra shop in order to keep leveling, many shitty f2p games work in this way.

[Anutsu]

Muse, I'm not really obsessed with it, the 'what if we open a new server' discussion just reminded me of the hype you're talking about. I see free servers, not only as way to bring more players to xRO but also as the only thing that could make a PK server viable (since the restrictive aspect of a PK server would be somehow balanced by the attractiveness of F2P).
But yeah let's drop it, it's all speculation anyways.

[Black Rabbit]

IMO, with the Kafra Shop in, the whole game should be f2p. Why is there p2p AND an item shop? That makes the game extremely unattractive.

[Pa.rabola]

Unlike most F2P games, the Kafra Shop does not have to be used in order to take gameplay to the max. It's just a bunch of side/optional stuff that no one necessarily needs.

[Wakelord]

I wouldn't go that far parabola. Stuff like +10dex food, conc ores great hats are technically not "necessary", in the way that having no cards in all your items isn't. Someone who uses the kafra shop extensively is a world ahead of someone who does in terms of exp, drop rate, rares and sexy items.

In terms of MMOs, Dream of Mirror online seems to have the best item shop- all it gives is novelty stuff like maid costumes and ninja suits which do nothing and have a seperate equipment slot. There are some items that are useful, such as pet eggs but they've swamped the game with them so within 10 minutes of looking for a pet you could get one spending only a little ingame money only. Other than aesthetics there isn't a difference between the item mall users and the wholly f2p users.

[Tigre]

I would still agree with Parabola, though....
Exp? Sure, I'll give you that.
Drop rates -- the increase isn't so significant that it's game-breaking...Besides, even with bubblegum, you still have to make the effort to go out and extensively hunt, especially if you're going after MVP's, in which case you get a slightly less shitty drop rate but a significantly harder-to-kill monster and most people wouldn't even waste their time with most of the "easier" ones because they don't drop anything worthwhile.

Rares? What's rare about an item you can openly buy? Besides, it's not as if kafra points is only for the people with money to waste -- RO set it up in a smart way by allowing people who renew their account to accumulate points so it's accessable to everyone.
I'm a poor college student and even I have benefitted from the use of the kafra shop when my finances allow (which is hardly ever, actually) and I don't feel the least bit left behind or whatever when I can't buy something. The game is still playable, by all means.

[Max Period]

pRO Valkyrie is a popular F2P PK server.

Their PK settings are a bit different however. Most maps are not PK, only a handful (typically MVP maps) are PK enabled.

PK maps in pRO Valkyrie:
• gef_fild10 (Orc Lord)
• moc_pryd06 (Amon Ra)
• treasure02 (Drake)
• gef_dun01 (Dracula)
• gef_dun02 (Doppelganger)
• pay_fild11 (Eddga)
• gl_chyard (Dark Lord)
• moc_pryd04 (Osiris)
• xmas_dun02 (Stormy Knight)
• pay_dun04 (Moonlight)
• anthell02 (Maya)
• mjolnir04 (Mistress)
• moc_fild15 (Phreeoni)
• gon_du03 (Dark Snake Lord)
• prt_maze03 (Baphomet)
• ama_dun03 (Incantation Samurai)
• beach_dun (Tao Gunka)
• ayo_dun02 (Lady Tanee)
• ein_dun02 (RSX_0806)
• odin_tem03 (Randgris)
• kh_dun02 (Kiel)
• abyss03 (Detardeurus)
• lou_dun03 (White Lady)
• prt_sewb04 (Golden Thief Bug)
• xmas_fild01 (Garm)
• in_sphinx05 (Pharao)
• tur_dun04 (Turtle General)
• ra_san05 (Gloom Underknight)
• ra_fild02 (Atroce)
• ra_fild03 (Atroce)
• ra_Fild04 (Atroce)
• tha_t01 (Thanatos Tower 1)
• tha_t02 (Thanatos Tower 2)
• tha_t03 (Thanatos Tower 3)
• tha_t04 (Thanatos Tower 4)
• tha_t05 (Thanatos Tower 5)
• tha_t06 (Thanatos Tower 6)
• tha_t07 (Thanatos Tower 7)
• tha_t08 (Thanatos Tower 8)
• tha_t09 (Thanatos Tower 9)
• tha_t10 (Thanatos Tower 10)
• tha_t11 (Thanatos Tower 11)
• tha_t12 (Thanatos Tower 12) Additional Maps to turn PK:
• mjo_dun02 (Skel Worker)
• mjo_dun03 (Skel Worker)
• iz_dun03 (Marc)
• iz_dun04 (Strouf, Merman)
• gon_dun01 (Honey, Royal Jelly)
• gon_fild01 (Honey/Zipper Bear)
• gl_cas02 (Raydrics)
• gl_knt01 (Raydrics)
• gl_knt02 (Raydrics)
• moc_pryd03 (Matyr/Verit)
• in_sphinx1 (Matyr)
• in_sphinx2 (Matyr)
• in_sphinx3 (Matyr)
• in_sphinx4 (Matyr)
• in_sphinx5 (Matyr)
• gef_fild08 (Kobold)
• gef_fild12 (Kobold)
• pay_dun04 (Muffler)
• gl_prison1 (Formal Suit)
• Turtle Island 3 (Assulter)

[Wild]

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/NUkUvYIsJD.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843948.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/joAUIFPWWE.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843950.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/mCLIS6VPKE.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843952.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/9M9BUzWmxj.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843954.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/dXA7LRWwnV.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843956.html)

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/DaH38imPcc.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843958.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/1VBDheuB8e.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843960.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/xtU9dH6k1i.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843962.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/fJMkFWGC3t.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843964.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/2QvgjrSX6V.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2843966.html)

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/bWo28rloDG.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844144.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/sWoyB2Fxa5.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844146.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/Zh3EU74uPC.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844148.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/4VUYz5ntlW.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844150.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/iW3afQ5esT.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844154.html)

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/oZiMVWSpST.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844156.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/ltAwzuEwIU.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844158.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/1eSVmn91bj.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844160.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/nTVKf7R211.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844162.html)

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/14OQ42wkTX.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844260.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/JZjUWMkK4h.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844262.html)http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/1kqM33ADRp.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2844264.html)

[Wild]

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/ebnPVURsJe.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850934.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/ERxdq7Bd3c.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850936.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/fNXlYj0c2W.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850938.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/RL6N2ASahk.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850940.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/BH5UUet54L.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850942.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/7pScNgY2OH.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850944.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/F0XS6kTbvP.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850946.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/Q6lozYAU4m.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2850948.html)

[Wild]

http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/fKrxVi51Rs.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855784.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/e06n4l45Av.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855786.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/DUNBgvytN4.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855788.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/A024Em6ii7.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855790.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/r4iV9P8JRK.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855792.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/6g7cLYEfUi.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855794.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/S76yzSPB3E.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855796.html)
Battlegrounds?
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080628/thumbs/WKFWUuTykx.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2855798.html)

[Wild]

Poring War
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/oJWQz4UUDS.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2876318.html)
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/l4XM2fUAm2.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2876070.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/yQaIzZSv3b.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2876072.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/5rVG5nSmmh.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2876074.html) http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/V45lgx26NY.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2876076.html)

[Wild]

http://img.ragnarokonline.com/image/RoHeadgearCompMay08_files/image115.jpg
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/VeMvmVyx3E.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2877284.html)

[soldit]

Pretty awesome screenshots, and love the biolabs stink lines equip! (Also, that monk with clothing dye doesn't look half bad)

[Wild]

kRO Palettes
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/EZ21DeReF1.jpg
http://i075.radikal.ru/0806/b1/23c3aa3cef8f.jpg

[Knives]

thats the problem, the more users you pile onto one server, theres a bigger chance of server outage and maps going down randomly

chaos/loki people from iRO back in 2002 understand this all too well

I just had so many horrible flashbacks after reading this post.

[Doddler]

http://ro.doddlercon.com/images/kropop.jpg

I figured I would share this! Note that this is during sunday WoE 1 time.

[bluefox]

http://img.ragnarokonline.com/image/RoHeadgearCompMay08_files/image115.jpg
http://ipicture.ru/uploads/080629/thumbs/VeMvmVyx3E.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/2877284.html)

Wait.
What.

[Atum]

What kind of equip is this biolabs-smoke, lower headgear?
I want that on iro :omg:

@Wild : if possible, could you also >say< something about the screens you post,in some i dont really get the point of showing those pics (like what this eremes spirit is, what those cloth dyeing-combinations are and how to make them, etc (i thought you can have only the normal one and one modified clothing at the moment))

[soldit]

About a month after the opening and the server bled half its population? Ouch.

[Bui]

After seeing those screen shots can you imagine how many people would join an official "english" F2P server? I know many people who play private servers perfering iRo but simply cant afford it. A F2P server with Kafra shop options is something I've been suggesting for months, I'd play it.