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View Full Version : Archer: Advantages of a pure FA sniper over pure SD sinx?


Kikivu
01-15-2009, 09:21 PM
Can someone please tell me the advantages of a pure FA sniper over a pure SD sinx? Also what is the weapon of choice for FA..Damage wise?

Beanie
01-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Didn't you just post this in the sinx thread. Try to keep it in one please? You could've just asked both questions since they're pretty much identical.

devo1
01-15-2009, 09:42 PM
sniper thread asked for sniper advantages, sinx thread asked for sinx advantages. makes sense mostly

Kikivu
01-15-2009, 10:19 PM
Sorry i wasnt entirely sure if i should have or not..

Frost
01-15-2009, 10:38 PM
Falcon Assault
Advantages: Does more DPS than SD in strings. Can switch to bow to use FAS
Disadvantages: Deals shitty damage to GR wearers (no way around GR).

Soul Destroyer
Advantages: Can mix and match many types of equipment depending on opponent [ice pick, combat knife, mummy cards]. Can switch to Katar and EDP SB depending on situation. Can have elemental strength depending on endow and the enemy's gear.

Disadvantages: Deals less damage in strings than FA. Requires Dex/Mummy carded weapons to hit high flee characters. Requires more gear.

Kikivu
01-15-2009, 11:02 PM
What would be the ideal weapon for a FA sniper then?

Lathenia
01-15-2009, 11:10 PM
Bazerald, I dunno what Frost was talking about. SD is generally higher DPS.

Boni
01-15-2009, 11:14 PM
Wait wait wait. FA deals more damage than SD? I hope to god youre kidding me.

I wouldnt say pure FA sniper is better at anything tbh. Even a normal sniper should outdamage a pure FA sniper in strings as the aspd makes a difference.

Kikivu
01-15-2009, 11:24 PM
Sorry...really lame question but... Is it int or dex that improves FA Damage?

devo1
01-15-2009, 11:25 PM
int+dex but primarily int

Frost
01-15-2009, 11:46 PM
FA, realistic equips

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2126/fa1uc5.th.png (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fa1uc5.png)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7452/fa2of3.th.png (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fa2of3.png)

29000 or so DPS


SD, quite exaggerated equips
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4152/sd1mg5.th.png (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd1mg5.png)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1162/sd2ah5.th.png (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd2ah5.png)

26000 or so DPS in a calc, but also consider the aspd delay and it drops to somewhat 18000 DPS

I just made this in 3 minutes or so. Some of the stuff might be a bit off but hey, he asked for a PURE FA build. [PS. Don't make the weapon I used. It's just for number crunching]

Kikivu
01-15-2009, 11:54 PM
Thanks frost...so is bazerald correct as ideal weapon?

Lathenia
01-15-2009, 11:59 PM
Haha, 29k. Pathetic. SD does more.

Frost
01-16-2009, 12:01 AM
Believe all you want, I'm just here to prove that FA is an underrated skill.

Kikivu
01-16-2009, 12:12 AM
Does aspd affect FA at all?

Lathenia
01-16-2009, 12:15 AM
Yes. Like clashing spiral so to say.

PS. Your builds completely suck. 1 VIT? Wtf. Bows on FA? And wtf, your equips are in no way "realistic" on either sets.

Kikivu
01-16-2009, 12:16 AM
Alright thanks...So yea bazerald for main wep?

Lathenia
01-16-2009, 12:18 AM
Unless archers can equip excaliburs someday, Bazerald will probably remain as the choice of DPS oriented FA snipers.

Joey
01-16-2009, 12:20 AM
um no
unarmed

btw your sinx has 1 agi which is why the DPS is shit poor, frost

and the sniper should not have more than 149 total dex

Frost
01-16-2009, 12:41 AM
I already told you that I made that up in 3 mins or so, barely enough time to think of the details. And he asked for a PURE build. He has yet to say what he does with it. Not everyone goes WoE you know. If you want vit so much, just swap agi with vit or go the 90 int-90 dex - 60 vit build, which isn't a PURE build anyways.

@Joey Yes. Having agi would increase DPS. BUT in the calc, aspd does NOT increase DPS since it only considers skill delay so what I've shown you is the MOST MAXIMUM damage possible in strings CONSIDERING THAT THE SINX HAS MAX ASPD. And even so, the DPS is still lower than FA.


I know everyone is bashing me on the FUCKING DETAILS WHEN THE POINT OF MY POST IS TO SHOW THAT HOW FA DPS IS > SD DPS in strings since everyone was wondering how FA > SD in strings.

psychomonkey
01-16-2009, 02:35 AM
is there anyone... ANYONE who even has a pure falcon assault build??

Draco
01-16-2009, 09:26 AM
I guess a few people made them when trans classes were introduced and they thought FA was an amazing skill, like my friend.

Its pretty shitty imo :/

and the sniper should not have more than 149 total dex
Could you explain that to me?

margafred
01-16-2009, 10:45 AM
SD, quite exaggerated equips
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4152/sd1mg5.th.png (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd1mg5.png)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1162/sd2ah5.th.png (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd2ah5.png)

26000 or so DPS in a calc, but also consider the aspd delay and it drops to somewhat 18000 DPS
Why so called exaggerated eqs did shit dps there?Try mine..
(jlvl 70,stats with bless)
STR 99+23
INT 99+11
DEX 25+20
+7 Triple Zipper Saber (main hand)
+0 Quad Zipper MG (off hand)
Porcellio card on armor
BSB set
Mantis Ring
Pirate Dagger

Water element on High Orc (under 130 DEX 100 INT Clown strings to mimic your calculation)

Hit Ratio 100%
Dodge Ratio 13%
Cast Time 0.16sec
Delay (Fixed Type) 0.27s
Minimum Damage 14640(8710+5930)
Average Damage 15331(9150+6181)
Maximum Damage 15982(9550+6432)
Damage Per Second 35284.23 <--- this!
Minimum Number of Hits 1
Average Number of Hits 1
Maximum Number of Hits 1
Average Battle Durration 0.43s
Base Exp Per Hit 3618Exp
Job Exp Per Hit 1639Exp
Average Damage Recieved 468 (416 ~ 519)
Average Damage Recieved (w/dodge) 399.43Damage

In your calculation you forgot water element there.You used Excalibur and set the element to neutral,and it already does 26k DPS.So i imagined the DPS if the element is set to water would be 30k and above.

Also you forgot the server limit issue here.Your case of 29000 DPS for FA (means 4 FA per second) is the same like 360k DPS of Acid Bomb on MVP Valk before VIT nerf which was calculated using the same Doddler calc by someone before in RI (i think it was Edenknight?).Both cases are technically impossible even under Strings and instant cast effect due to client limit and human limit.

I mean can you even spam 4 FA in 1 sec even if you have all that?Knowing how the FA animation goes,i doubt that (yeah you can't make the falcon fly and hit the target 4 times in one second...you can't make that possible for sure).2 SD per second may sound hard but 4 FA per second is even more ridiculous.

Oh and one note...ASPD don't affect FA at all.It won't even make the falcon fly like a jet...

Divine~
01-16-2009, 11:09 AM
Yea he beat me to it, there was no water endow on sinx, all in all I think sd > fa although I have been pwned in pvp why fa in strings before but I was a sader and by myself so I think that might have something to do with it

Joey
01-16-2009, 11:20 AM
@Joey Yes. Having agi would increase DPS. BUT in the calc, aspd does NOT increase DPS since it only considers skill delay so what I've shown you is the MOST MAXIMUM damage possible in strings CONSIDERING THAT THE SINX HAS MAX ASPD. And even so, the DPS is still lower than FA.
the calc is wrong, it seems you agree. maybe if we were playing calculator RO FA would have more dps than SD

Tiberius
01-16-2009, 11:54 AM
SD:
Elemental advantage (helps in pvp, not just against immune but actually increases damage against GR and in iRO where Unfrozen Winds run rampant there is a good chance of doing neato damage with earth)
Scales significantly better with equipment
Far more SP efficient, get decent Int and you're sorted
Used in MVP parties
Portion will always hit
Generally more flexible
Use of EDP SB is still viable
Cloak
Larger health pool

Shorter range
Since it scales well with equipment it means gearing up can be expensive to get the most damage

FA:
Always hits
Faster/instant cast
Can be good with poor gear, eg no Ice Pick or even no weapon at all, but does not scale well
Allows use of shield all the time
Longer range
Traps

Runs out of SP very quickly, even with extremely high Int
Forced neutral
Damage is set, can be problematic

Lucentos
01-16-2009, 05:36 PM
About Animation delay - i made some experiment with my High priest and fist class weapons and it seems that Animation delay begins it count from cast beginning, e.g. it seems that it is applied only if player have CastTime+Castdelay<ASPDDelay/2 and even still its application begins from cast start, not cast end - you only recieve only ASPDDelay/2-(Casttime+Castdelay) amount of delay.

Tessen
01-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Oh yeah about the what wep would be best, Baz is nice for the shield function. Although the new BG Bravery Bow adds INT +10 and would increase damage more. Like I say though take the good with the bad, won't have a shield but leaves you open to attack on the fly without swappng.

Rumm
01-17-2009, 11:42 AM
a better question would be, can a FA sniper in strings out dps a DS sniper

margafred
01-17-2009, 05:00 PM
I'd say depending on the target itself.Assuming both builds have the right gears,carded bow,high DEX (and AGI for DS build and INT for FA build),DS would do more dps than FA on low DEF target,while FA would mostly do more dps than DS on high DEF target.

Joey
01-19-2009, 07:15 PM
it also depends on factors like battlechant and whatever. a DS sniper (or SD sinx for that matter) gains a lot more from stats/double atk than FA sniper

Leonazium
01-26-2009, 09:47 PM
a better question would be, can a FA sniper in strings out dps a DS sniper
better question would be, can an FA sniper out dps a DS/BS trapper WoE sniper(limit of only brute/insect mobs).

I would say FA should be left as a novelty. It comes in handy if you don't have partners that can deal with high def.

~viridia~
01-27-2009, 01:34 AM
Only time I've seen FA used well is vs a target with defending aura up and as a way to finish a kill on a target if it tries to run(only in pvp, never seen it be useful in WoE) and position lags.

Flawless
01-28-2009, 10:58 PM
SNIPERS HAVE TRAPS, go 90 total vit, 130 dex w/ bless, rest in int 7x-8x base?

Nretep
02-04-2009, 03:43 AM
I'd say the DPS of SD and FA is about the same.

SD can be pushed by equip
FA can wear reduction-/hp-equip

While a sniper can wear CombatKnife, Cranial, 2x FLC Rosary and get high vit, a sinX can do more dmg. But if the sinX'd like to wear the same equip, the FA does more dmg

so SD is more flexible but not "better"

PS:
I excluded ghost enemies