10/25/2007 Patch Notice Addendum [Archive]

Doddler

10-25-2007, 01:33 AM

Noah

10-25-2007, 01:53 AM

Hah!

TKMs getting nerfed.

Bluedreams

10-25-2007, 01:55 AM

How much was it reduced?

Dante

10-25-2007, 02:09 AM

... at least that's quite a merciful nerf rather than giving leet SR level to every boss-flagged monsters :D

John

10-25-2007, 07:09 AM

I don't see how that's much of a nerf, unless it means that in Union, you also have a lower chance to hit Boss flagged monsters.

edit: realized it's less hits, not less "HIT".

Dr. Azzy

10-25-2007, 07:12 AM

I read that as "the number of hits per second has been reduced"
Thank fcking god.
N> it on iRO
-Az

Atum

10-25-2007, 07:30 AM

Wohooo ^^
Nice patch.

And yea : how much hits/second does it still do?

Leviant

10-25-2007, 08:06 AM

good thing my TKM is more of an atk speed type than heat type

:D

Realus

10-25-2007, 08:17 AM

So... won't this un-nerf the Kasa thing?

Unless it reduces hit/second to like... something unbarable.
How slow are we talking about would you have any idea?

It's 50hit/second now right?

Boom

10-25-2007, 08:20 AM

^ That's a good point, lol. Slower hits would be easier to out pot ):

10-25-2007, 08:51 AM

It's 50hit/second now right?
Around that if the server itself is stable enough.

Karu the Great

10-25-2007, 08:57 AM

Awesome, a much-needed patch! : D
Maybe heat will go back to being used the way it was supposed to - a powerful AoE but not super godly. The TKM in my guild would use heat to break ice in large parties in magma 2 for surprisingly good experience and loot - and lately he's been using it to MVP with me because its overpowered for mvp's.

Eiyonzir

10-25-2007, 09:08 AM

Might be easier to outpot, but it also makes it possible for other classes to compete on MVPs. I was beginning to fear that after the Biochem Online era, we'd be facing the TKM Online saga now.

Xellie

10-25-2007, 09:14 AM

Good.

Lol just realized, if SR didn't kill Thor levelling. This will.

Tsu Ryu

10-25-2007, 09:43 AM

Good.

Lol just realized, if SR didn't kill Thor levelling. This will.

The problem with SR is to out pot 10.4k damage/second...now with Heat dealing less hits/sec,it would be easier to out pot... Sh** nerfs >.<"

Ryu

Rya.Reisender

10-25-2007, 09:46 AM

I think Heat just got a 100ms or 200ms delay for hitting so if the mob get knocked back you won't notice a different but if the mob didn't get knocked back it will only do (maybe) 5-10 hits a second instead of 50.

What I'm really wondering is if that "fix" influences the SP damage in pvp.

Mint

10-25-2007, 09:46 AM

Good.

Lol just realized, if SR didn't kill Thor levelling. This will.

Unless it's something retarded like 1 attack/second, it's a buff for Thor more than anything. Nerf for MVPing tho.

Rya.Reisender

10-25-2007, 09:47 AM

Thor was supposed to be a party-only dungeon anyways. :x

Atum

10-25-2007, 09:47 AM

The problem with SR is to out pot 10.4k damage/second...now with Heat dealing less hits/sec,it would be easier to out pot... Sh** nerfs >.<"

Ryu
But it gives kasas time to do some damage and skills like clashing spiral instead of instant-death = more potting.

Xellie

10-25-2007, 09:55 AM

Mint

10-25-2007, 10:42 AM

Soloing will prolly be impossible. That's not a bad thing.

Sniper7

10-25-2007, 11:57 AM

Damn, my tkm in pRO just hit 85 and then I see this ... my only question is : About how many hits per second will heat be after the nerf?

Dante

10-25-2007, 12:00 PM

Dunno, Clashing spiral doesn't appeal to me. It's almost always instant death.

as for potting, the amount of potting witll be equal or greater. since you're still doing /taking the same damage with heat/union, just taking longer? You're more likely to get hit.

But combined with SR. Hmm. I didn't think it might allow you to outpot SR?

I think about reduced hits/sec + SR + no Union combination. Perhaps the SR would be outpottable. But shoot, doing less damage + missing half of your Heat hits aren't cool in terms of SP usage. Plus those boss-flagged monsters seem happy to unleash all unholy skills they've got to you while you're spending longer time killing them.

Eclipse1

10-25-2007, 12:11 PM

And i remember when i was saying that was overpowered and probably a not intended feature, and it should be fixed. And how many people blamed me. Nice.

night_knight

10-25-2007, 12:48 PM

I'd guess it's been reduced to about 190 attack speed, as opposed to the 199 it was at.

Jayed

10-25-2007, 01:37 PM

So... won't this un-nerf the Kasa thing?

Unless it reduces hit/second to like... something unbarable.
How slow are we talking about would you have any idea?

It's 50hit/second now right?
Unless it's something retarded like 1 attack/second, it's a buff for Thor more than anything. Nerf for MVPing tho.

If heat hits 10 times / sec instead of 50 times / sec, then you won't instantly vaporize the Kasa anymore, they're going to hit you 2-4 times now, which includes attacks like Clashing Spiral. Also, the main point of TKM leveling as how quickly they killed Kasa. I've heard people brag about 9m/hr+ exp. 1/5 of that is 1.8m/hr. If you can't get 1.8m elsewhere, delete your character. No point in leeching with that.

Realus

10-25-2007, 01:49 PM

If heat hits 10 times / sec instead of 50 times / sec, then you won't instantly vaporize the Kasa anymore, they're going to hit you 2-4 times now, which includes attacks like Clashing Spiral. Also, the main point of TKM leveling as how quickly they killed Kasa. I've heard people brag about 9m/hr+ exp. 1/5 of that is 1.8m/hr. If you can't get 1.8m elsewhere, delete your character. No point in leeching with that.

In your opinion 10hits / second = 1/5 experience?

*Looks at calc*
Says it'll take 20hits to kill a kasa, so it'd only take 2 seconds / 95k exp.

Also, I thought a sakray user made 80mil/hour. So that'd be 40mil/hour on normal servers. And at a "1/5 experience" rate, that's still 8mil/hour. Not bad :P

bardsftw

10-25-2007, 03:03 PM

Realus

10-25-2007, 03:18 PM

Pwnd.

I'm not much of a TKM fan/expert but I wish they'd get rid of the SP damage and make Heats damage players as well. After fixing the overpowering though. I feel the same about Es type skills from Linkers.

But that's me. : |

Estin + Estun + Esma on Players please.
I don't see why these can't be used. Stun, Pushback, and Damage.

Eswoo + Eska + Eske could be broken though.

Eswoo can't be canceled like Quag/Agi Down can. Unsure, but would this cause graphic errors? Or would it just scale the player easily?

Eska would slow them again, lower aspd, make them icepick bait. And does this stop skill usage too? If it stopped skill usage, you can't run away, or do anything with this skill casted on you.
"Hi Guild Leader!" *Eksa*

Eska would probably just be used like mindbreaker, to make Soul Link + Eske Sonic Blow in WoE. Save on EDP costs, as long as your guild doesn't attack the linker.
Also, turn on EDP when there's a threat on your emp for massive damage. (Or asura!)

Renouille

10-25-2007, 03:28 PM

We apologize for overlooking the following notes on the update applied 10/24/2007.

-The effects of the skills "Solar Heat", "Lunar Heat", and "Stellar Heat" have been changed.
> When used against a boss monster, the rate at which it strikes the target has been reduced.
Plain and simple, they left this off of the 10/24/2007 patch notice.
Two questions. First (which everyone else has been asking), what's the rate now? Second, is the rate at which it hits normal monsters still not artificially bounded, or did they change that too and just neglect to mention it?

Inferno Nightblade

10-25-2007, 05:56 PM

The thing is, as other people noted, is that it does knock back normal monsters anyway. So, in that sense, it is bounded for normal monsters as is. Just not bosses, which is why people are LoKasaing.

I also don't think that the experience per hour goes down that much, in direct proportion to DPS. When you level, you're not CONSTANTLY engaged in battle, and with TKMs, you have to use bluepots/get SP refilled, so yeah. It does make it much harder to solo, so yeah.

Follisimo

10-25-2007, 05:59 PM

I'm still owning stuff with ease. I don't really notice much of a difference, but I also got nice gears that own them in around 24hits. I am very sure you can handle it Reno. And it won't really matter much if you are just leeching chars. So what if you die you are just getting the leechers the exp.

Anyways the effect is on kRO right now and not iRO yet.

It will become 5hits per second instead of 50.

Renouille

10-25-2007, 06:30 PM

The thing is, as other people noted, is that it does knock back normal monsters anyway. So, in that sense, it is bounded for normal monsters as is. Just not bosses, which is why people are LoKasaing.
Heat always pushes monsters "backwards." If a normal monster's back is to a wall, heat will damage the monster just as fast as if it were a boss. Although the convenience of not having to find a wall certainly contributes to Thor1's popularity, I suspect it has more to do with Kasas' abundant spawn and relatively high exp compared to normal monsters.

I'm still owning stuff with ease. I don't really notice much of a difference, but I also got nice gears that own them in around 24hits. I am very sure you can handle it Reno. And it won't really matter much if you are just leeching chars. So what if you die you are just getting the leechers the exp.
Thanks, but I don't see this is related to either of my questions. :confused:

It will become 5hits per second instead of 50.
Authoritative source please. Otherwise your guess is as good as anyone's.

MistressTifa

10-25-2007, 06:46 PM

it was more then 80m an hr I was gaining on Sak, look at the time stamps on the SSs I posted, I gained almost 80m in 45 minutes. It prob was about 85m-90m an hr if I had the right 1hr time stamp

Alaskan

10-25-2007, 09:05 PM

Just throwing it out there, 5 hits a second = 190 ASPD. Private servers seem to have Heat hit at 190 as well, probally just because of the server emulator. Wouldn't doubt that Heat rate.

But yeah, what's the new rate (YouTube plz) and how much will Thor Books be going for? =P

Zable Fahr

10-26-2007, 12:43 AM

Yay, I've been waiting for that for a long time. Although i hope, they don't nerf the WoE-Part of Heat aswell... Otherwise my TKM would be completely useless...

Yugioh

10-26-2007, 12:51 AM

Private servers have Esma enabled in PvP/WoE. They own everyone, outdamaging SinX.

Rya.Reisender

10-26-2007, 03:16 AM

5 hits a second indeed seems to be most likely, alone for the simple fact that it is equal to 190 aspd and also the interval in which the damage shows.

Also I have the feeling that this "nerf" is not only for bosses but also for PVP and mobs that are next to a wall and thus not knocked back. I doubt they set a different skill delay depending on what type of mob you hit. oO
I really want that tested. :x

Leviant

10-26-2007, 03:43 AM

lol, wished i didnt took heat (lvl 2) if its just the same as 190 atk spd, cause... its my current spd :/

could they at least make it 10/sec?

:/

Rya.Reisender

10-26-2007, 04:34 AM

I'm pretty sure you can attack and heat the same time. So even if it's slower than your normal attack it will still be more damage with Heat. ^^'

coolfish1103

10-26-2007, 06:47 AM

Great nerf, hopefully it gets to iRO soon.

Kratos

10-26-2007, 08:05 AM

5 hits per second = senseless, at least 10 or throw TKMs at trash bin at once.

10-26-2007, 10:50 AM

This won't stop me from getting at least another three 9x trans chars from scratch until it hits us. Long live LoD, Hydro and TKLoD. \o/

Swift_Arrow

10-26-2007, 05:10 PM

This won't stop me from getting at least another three 9x trans chars from scratch until it hits us. Long live LoD, Hydro and TKLoD. \o/
word

Atum

10-26-2007, 07:08 PM

So, are there any posts on official kro-forums, ragnagate, etc regarding how much the "aspd" of heat vs bosses is reduced?
Unfortunately i cant read korean or i would search for myself. ^^

10-26-2007, 09:00 PM

No one knows yet for certain. There are no videos or pics. According to Doddler, kRO sakrayians are lazier than those of iRO.

Which would explain why stuff gets nerfed AFTER it hits iRO main servers most of the time (think maestro, hydro and now heat).

Jayed

10-26-2007, 10:08 PM

I think the mentality is just different. They don't play regularly there, so they don't need to make up get EXP fast leveling schemes.

Doddler

10-26-2007, 10:46 PM

kRO Sakray during the highest point of in game usage, WoE2 testing, has 35 players. Usually, there are anywhere from 5-15 players. Sometimes a few more to test new content being sold in shops or to see new dungeons. Its really not a real game server, as shown by the availability of the character copy feature.

night_knight

10-27-2007, 12:26 AM

kRO Sakray during the highest point of in game usage [...] has 35 players.
Wow lol. D:

Golden Fingers

10-27-2007, 06:35 AM

5 hits per second? cool. So basically you have a char who can constantly attack at 190 aspd *while* doubling up by attacking with skills or more regular hits.

Can you get 190 aspd naturally on a TKM? that'd give you 10 hits/sec when combined with heat.

Being able to outpot union damage a lot easier means you could get a fair amount of vit if you wanted too to avoid the one-hit skills.

Hopefully we dont get both the heat patch and SR patch, because SR is going to hurt 1-hit killers, unless you think asura and EDP are unbalanced/broken/in need of nerf...

Cubical

10-27-2007, 07:20 AM

Funny they locked the jRO Thor thread on the offical fourms.

While doddler had good intensions, i knew it was gonna be locked due to other people endlessly whining about it.

StealthFire

10-27-2007, 04:14 PM

Private servers have Esma enabled in PvP/WoE. They own everyone, outdamaging SinX.

SAUCE PLZ

...35 players.

Hello private server.

Doddler

10-27-2007, 04:18 PM

Funny they locked the jRO Thor thread on the offical fourms.

While doddler had good intensions, i knew it was gonna be locked due to other people endlessly whining about it.

I think all my controversial exploit and/or unbalanced gameplay discussion thread got locked, when I think about it. Still, if people are discussing it and aware of these specific issues... then my job was completed successfully. :gg:

Renouille

10-27-2007, 04:30 PM

5 hits per second? cool. So basically you have a char who can constantly attack at 190 aspd *while* doubling up by attacking with skills or more regular hits.

Can you get 190 aspd naturally on a TKM? that'd give you 10 hits/sec when combined with heat.
Close-range normal attacks have the often undesirable effect of making a monster switch to you. That's why heat TKMs currently don't use normal attacks at MVPs even though it could boost their damage output by more than 10%. Note that every other serious MVP class has a way to damage MVPs without making them change target.

Cubical

10-28-2007, 10:24 AM

I think all my controversial exploit and/or unbalanced gameplay discussion thread got locked, when I think about it. Still, if people are discussing it and aware of these specific issues... then my job was completed successfully. :gg:

Indeed.

Good job!

Eclipse1

10-28-2007, 10:45 AM

I think that having all exploits uncovered and well know by everyone is better than hide them - that way you force Grav to do something about it and not just act like nothing happens and let a few people benefit from it. All threads talking about exploits are welcome /no1

coolfish1103

10-28-2007, 08:17 PM

We will always be the white mouse starting for now.

Tiltowait

10-28-2007, 11:11 PM

Thor was supposed to be a party-only dungeon anyways. :x

Yea except the whole party has to be completely equipped because every single Kasa casts fireball the instant it sees you and every sword guardian casts spear boom the instant it sees you and etc... In short, I think they went overboard on the salamander/guardian atk and aspd, along with the kasa's matk. Just a bit.

I'm not arguing that it's doable and fun with a well-equipped party (read: Alice shields, pasana armors, flameguard hoods, etc). On the contrary, it's a fun, risky place with ridiculous monsters.

But what other map requires every single party member to have the same kind of armor (pasana) in order to survive the most common skill from the most common monster?

Will you make it one of your everyday party leveling spots?

Rya.Reisender

10-29-2007, 03:06 AM

Nope it's something special. xD

-Yang-

10-29-2007, 06:04 AM

pure heat build also=approximately 37-60k lexed flying kicks...for meg users 65-110k...buffs only with bless and a pancake...heat builds aren't totally useless...

-Yang-

10-29-2007, 06:29 AM

Noah

10-29-2007, 07:13 AM

We apologize for overlooking the following notes on the update applied 10/24/2007.

-The effects of the skills "Solar Heat", "Lunar Heat", and "Stellar Heat" have been changed.
> When used against a boss monster, the rate at which it strikes the target has been reduced.

i assume this obviously means still 50times/sec to normal monsters?

Normal mobs get the knockback effect. Therefore no.

Not sure if it's possible to get 50hits/sec by locking the mob to a wall or something similiar.

Xellie

10-29-2007, 07:23 AM

As far as I've tried, I seem to get the 50hits/sec against walls.

Zable Fahr

10-29-2007, 08:36 AM

Let's say it like this:

Boss Protocol monsters got no pushback. Neither got normal monsters, which are standing with the back to a wall. So, it's basically the same.

The monsters always got pushed back to where they came from. Even if they would "look" towards another direction, they will be pushed back to where they took the latest step from. (Note: In case they just spawned, they will react as if they just took a stop upside --> will be pushed to south.)

-Yang-

10-29-2007, 05:17 PM

Normal mobs get the knockback effect. Therefore no.

Not sure if it's possible to get 50hits/sec by locking the mob to a wall or something similiar.

i already know it works against the wall right now....

Fairytale

10-29-2007, 08:16 PM

i already know it works against the wall right now....

The Skill was changed and they didn't take into account that you can get 50hps if you push a normal mob against a wall. obviously, if boss monsters don't get the 50hps, normal mobs don't get it either, even when on a wall.

aside that, which normal mob has enough hp to make any use out of it`?

note to self: less forum, more sleeping.

2nd note: sry for broken english, it's like 3:16am here