Let's make a story.

[Old Mandrill]

Name things you like in Stories/Characters.
Name things you loathe in Stories

I'm working on a few stories right now and I want to make sure i put in things other people like and not just my own tastes.

Stuff I like
-Varied characters that have their own goals and story rather than just follow the main character around and serve as a cliche for the main character to talk to.

-Characters with not only flaws, but so many flaws or no particular strengths you have no idea how they could ever be considered the hero at first.

-Unexpected turns, basically when the character and the reader are both fooled, and both realize whats going on at the same time you get a really nice reaction. Scope phoenix wright.

-Sad stuff, I like a story that can make me shed a tear.

-Character that actually make me care about them, BIG PLUS!! I can't stand a character I cannot sympathize at all with. Like fuck Cloud and Sephiroth.

-Intros that make me ask questions, if you open up with getting my curiosity
I might keep reading

-Lush enviroments, lackluster enviroments make me feel like im just watching characters do a little dance in a ballroom.

-Music, if I can sync music to a scene its really nice.

-Villians you can almost agree with

-Villians who are villians because they are just simply bad people who step on other people for really stupid personal goals. Not grand schemes, but think like a friend you know who talks shit behind your back or lies to you for no reason you can fathom. THAT guy.

-Heros who arn't even heros, they just lend a helping hand or get forced into situations...They arn't out for the greater good.

-Sad situations that don't involve romance. Seriously there are sadder things than your girlfriend dying. ( fucking Neo/Matrix ) Like, how about the home you grew up in suddenly feels like a stranger? Or your moms sick and you can't do anything about it? Or your dog dying ( oh man that one fucks me up, Futurama ). People not only dying but somthing like it, ( Smash bros Brawl, they get turned into Trophies, Parom and porum FF4, not being able to walk ever again, ect ect.

Stuff I hate

-Too many sterotypes, I think a few stereotypes are neccessary, like the anti-hero, reluctant hero, villian who thinks he's doing the right thing...but too many
cliches really kills a story and turns it into a joke.

-Super powers, sometimes its a real story killer, especcially if there's alot of backstory on why this guy who shoots laser beams out of his eyes, and i have to read 19 chapters about his eyeballs. Bleach is a really bad/good example of this where I get bored of BANKAI BANKAI BANKAI BANKAI BANKAI...Instead of overpowering through situations, I like some tactical battles, Naruto really suprised me with some of the battle layouts, some of the best battles were with the characters with the LEAST abilities. I'd like to see characters utilize all their options for battle instead of saying "oh I HAVE TO DO THIS NO MATTER HOW BROKEN MY BONES ARE AND IM ABOUT TO DIE" There's no shame in running away
or sucker punching, sometimes a characters priority should just be to survive, or better yet, try to avoid hurting someone in a battle they don't want to be in. Another reason powers is bad is reasoning for battles becomes "is he strong? oh god he is! oh no! Syke! I'm MORE POWERFUL LOL!!" And then after that you have to explain how some other dude is more powerful blah blah blah blah. So. In my story I've opted to give no one any powers of any kind, and instead they have skills like Close quarters combat, Sniping, Fencing, Ect. With advantages and disadvantages to each.

-Emo past hero, the character is a complete dick because somthing bad happened in his past...Oh waahh.. Not that I wouldn't use this character, but I'd really try to make him less dramatic. The more dramatic the worse this character is.

-Useless girls, I hate when girls are thrown into roles and play passive supporting roles, neglecting to put anything interesting about them, or give them a good cut of the story. This is a million times worse when they are slutty too.

-Male characters who have beautiful women around them constantly or hit on them and all they care about is fighting or doing the right thing, like they've never had a boner before. Cloud, Ichigo, Ranma, Tenchi Muyo, on and on and on.
People don't have one track minds, least of all anyone with a penis. If you DO make a pureheart character make it a robot,monster, under 12yearold. Then I am convienced.

-Boring worlds, if you're going to set your story in a place, show me more than just buildings and some interiors, really SELL me that world, Naruto does a good job of this from time to time, Masters of Maser, and Sin City does a SUPERB job, and Avatar does one of the best jobs at establishing a world I've ever seen.

Favorite Stories
Don Quixote
Mother 3
Final Fantasy Tactics
The Iron Giant
Shortcircuit
Pinnochio
Frankenstien
Hell boy
Chrono Trigger
Pleasantville
Tom Sawyer
Phoenix Wright
Sin City
Final Fantasy 6

I'll add more but make your own list here, if you share a really good idea I might use it <3.

[xaerael]

hmm, this i have to participate in.

things i love:

overcoming of brawn with inteligence. things like "Enemy at the gates" springs to mind. fuck load of soldiers? snipe the command staff and send them into chaos.

non closure. a lot of people HATE this, but i like it. it leaves stories open to your imagination.

end at the begining. a piece of the finale to the story as the opener. the biggest one that springs to mind is grave of the fireflies where the main male character first line is "september 21, 1945. that was the night that i died" then timeslides back to around march time of the same year when the US bombed the shit out of civilian areas of japan. such a clever use of time because you know in the back of your head all the way through the movie what lies ahead for the characters.

things i hate:

overly drawn out sequences. just about every long running anime series is guilty of this. bleach, DBZ, naruto... there is only so long i can follow something which is the same for weeks before i get horribly bored. best example was naruto anime's "omgz we have to blow a rock up, let's take 5 fcking weeks about it". or DBZ's classic "we're gonna stare at each other for a REAAAALLY long time" sequences. it's not tension building, it's boring and cheap.

fanservice for fanservice's sake. everyone likes to see their favorite character depicted in cute/sexy/naked states, but cute/sexy/naked does not a good plot make. only eye candy! things like this go on my "well i like the design etc" stack, and probably never get looked at again. fanservice with great story (.hack, evangellion, anything by Key, and a heck of a lot more than i can be bothered to list) are instant successes.

fave stories

sympathy for lady vengence
oldboy
amelie
grave of the fireflies
planetarian
AIR
kanon
eternal sonata
300 (purely because it doesn't try to be anything more than it is)

[Master Sin]

Things I like:

Let's say it's an action/fighting series. I love it when the main character loses a battle, it shows that not every one is perfect, and there's always someone stronger than you. It also motivates you to improve yourself and meet the challenge.

I like it when someone fights, but doesn't even want to win. Let's say, main character gets into a fight, gets the crap beaten out of him, and knows the enemy is stronger, yet keeps getting up, just to piss off his opponent. Whether it's to prove a point or otherwise.

Character growth is such a big thing with me, I can't stand seeing someone strong from the start, mentally, physically, or just their way of thinking. Whether it's because he becomes mentally strong due to things that happen in his life, and people he meets, or intense training to become physically stronger, or whatever.

Trauma, like someone dying in front of you. So great, that you can even feel what the main character is feeling, a little anyways.

Things I hate:

A PLOT, for the love of god. I hate stories that have a decent beginning and show you the way it wants to go, but then just goes nowhere. I loved this anime a lot, but it falls into that category. It was Ranma. It has a solid plot in place, and it was obvious where the story was heading, but somewhere along the way, it got VERY repetitive, and I feel that it never really ended the way it should have.

Villains are a touchy subject, but I would have it two ways, depending on the series. I don't mind villains that become good or are changed after you show them a better path, though it seems kind of overused, but I really miss just pure evil ones. A villain that you couldn't have the main character change would be nice as a finale, and it shows that you can't change everyone.

Favorite Series:
Cowboy Bebop
Naruto
Ranma
Hunter x Hunter
Kanon
Chrono Crusade
Kenichi
Yu Yu Hakusho
Air

I could probably think of more, but that's all I got for now.
Edit: I fail at posting.

[Piffy]

A couple quickies ...

THINGS I LIKE

Dialogue
I will read a comic even if the story isn't particularly interesting if the dialogue and character interactions are well written and believable. I love to see characters bounce off one another. I don't really know how to explain what makes good dialogue and interactions but I know it when I see it. Maybe I can embellish further at some later point. xDTHINGS I HATE

Girls
Maybe that's a broad title but it's usually true. 9/10 I can't stand the females in a story. They are usually horrible clichés written by men whose only real life experience with women was when they were breastfed and now the only women they ever see are the dewey-eyed animu (my new favourite word!) cat-girls they watch for the purpose of pleasuring themselves because a real woman with opinions could never be good enough. Either that or they are a thinly veiled self portrait of the author who obviously has self esteem issues.

[Old Mandrill]

Love-

Piffy reminded me, I love TEAM UP MOVES. IE chrono trigger.

Hate-

When supporting characters stand in awe when they should be helping.

[Master Sin]

Love-

Piffy reminded me, I love TEAM UP MOVES. IE chrono trigger.

Hate-

When supporting characters stand in awe when they should be helping.
I hate that too, usually they're meant to give commentary to the battle, but you really only need one or two characters to do that.

Love-

When characters actually use their brain in a battle, rather than just going in and showing their "It's over 9000!!!!!" power.

Hate-

When comic relief is used in stupid areas, like right after an insanely sad scene, and someone does something pathetically stupid, that was meant for a laugh. How could someone even think of laughing after someone just died? I can't stand stuff like that.

[Piffy]

I agree with the statement about comic relief. Humour is exceptionally important in every story, even a very serious or dark one. However, it has to be used carefully and timing is everything.

[Ahina Reyoh]

Like:

-Characters that aren't one-sided. I like to see a character who can develop as the story progresses, rather then simply repeating themselves.

-Antagonists that aren't simply pure evil. Sometimes it's nice to have conflicting sides who both sound convincing, rather then black&white conflicts. It can help to make an antagonist's death/defeat seem more important too. Same goes for creatures. This doesn't mean there can't be any pure evil ones too, just that it's nice to have some variety.

-I'll have to give a repeat for worlds. I'm a sucker for good scenery.

-When main characters actually work togethor to accomplish something rather then having a single hero do everything while everyone else is a blabbing mouth or starring eye.

Dislike:

-Protagonists who are too strong and left unchecked.

-Power level battles and extreme reliance on special moves. Who's move is stronger and can overwhelm the other's? Not interested. Like Maximo, my more recent stories simply kicked things such as magic out the window for most of the characters. Some magic can be good, but not when it's being spammed left and right.

-Fanservice that simply doesn't fit the situation. Lady fighter who's completely armored above the waist and wearing nothing but boots below? We're in the middle of an extremely important mission and you're stopping to bathe nude? Your clothes fly off when you're casting spells, then magically fly back on when you're done?

-When an event is made out to be as if it's really important, then the characters forget about it shortly after.

I can probably agree with most the stuff already said here, some of what I said is just a repeat anyway. >_>

[Master_Loki]

I like characters that do the right thing in fucked up ways. Basically, characters that become martyrs (save the people at the cost of their health, etc), yet have their own twisted purpose in the end for doing so.

To be more specific, characters that make the other characters believe they are the good guy, when in fact, you learn they are the bad guy in the end, and the person you thought was the bad guy was in fact, the good guy. Climactic battle ensues with the other characters having emotional breakdowns, and some even going as far as becoming evil and betraying the rest to save the guy they once thought was on their side.

Basically a story with good twists like that. Good shit.

Of course, the writer has to write the story in a way that doesn't make it plainly obvious what the main characters intentions are, or it would just ruin the end, since people will just begin to assume hes evil etc.

[Cubical]

In the cause of naruto, too long a story, formulas and plot devices get recycled too much. I do like the characters and some aspects of the story.

what i like in a story is character depth, a good heavily saturated environment, dialog ad events that match the over all theme. And some scenes that cater to the needs; example, for instance Tales of Symphonia had religious figures and used religion as a means to help tell story. While in Half Life 2, there were 2 chapters dedicated to speed boat riding, 2 chapters to car riding, and in half life 2 ep2 there was a few chapters that require a car, one chapter it was provided to help you out in a very large confined area.

someone mentioned girls in a story was something they didnt always like. I agree to that to an extent, but female characters that were in chrono trigger were very good female characters. You could argue tom boyish, but thats not the point really. They arent afriad to get into danger and help the guys out. They also knew healing moves too, just like the Secret of Mana girl. Her moves where supportive but she also had a few good attacking ones too. So they werent just there to show boobage, they were there to seriously lend a hand and not be dead weight.

Samus Aran is another good example, its like female gordon freeman in space with thicker armor.

What i dont like is lack of plot or plot direction. And characters that serve no purpose. In the case of cash cow manga like Naruto,Bleach,One Piece,Inu-Yasha. You have 500 chapters with 20-15 panels each and your just using over 50-100 secondary characters that i dont have a clue about. Yea you told us about the main crew in all, but seriously these series are based off of the cash cow formula and exist only for that reason. They exist as never ending series and that is a very flawed type of story. A story needs a conclusion and an ending. A cash cow series just needs the middle of the story apex. Which is rising action, climax, falling. Its the same shit over and over again. While those series may have a long life and a hugely thick plot, let me ask you, how the FUCK do you people seriously keep up with EVERYthing going on in that universe? You cant. I believe even the authors message gets lost in all of several pages of "stuff" they illstrate.

With that i believe a story needs to be more like a Disney or Pixar film, you get your 1hr and 30mins to tell a story, tell it well, get your message across then i can leave the threate thinking, "Wow, i totally get what the whole story was, and i really relate to this character."

Also take this into consideration, when you watch a film, YOU SHOULD NEVER BE AWARE YOUR WATCHING IT. While i was watching the Golden Compass, i was too busy investing my emotions into the plot to realise i was watching the move. Thats how a story should be seen/felt from a viewers point of view.

When i watch a cash cow series, i know im watching it and my eyes glaze over.

[Dispel]

I like stories...
-with a lot of dramatic irony
-with a lot of VERY round (and I mean very round) characters
-with a lot of complexity
-with validity (logic; making sense)
-with a lot of tension and very high climax that will drop to a denouement slowly
-with some aspects of today's world (homosexuality, religion, those kinds of things)
-with antagonists that have complexity to them too (I want to learn and know more about antagonists other than that they're against the protagonist)

I don't like stories...
-with http://ettc.lrhsd.org/archives/holes.jpg in the story plots/characters.
-with filling episodes
-with silly off-track chapters/episodes with only flat characters
-without all of the things I listed that I like about stories

[Cubical]

I like stories...
-with a lot of tension and very high climax that will drop to a denouement slowly
-with some aspects of today's world (homosexuality, religion, those kinds of things)
-with antagonists that have complexity to them too (I want to learn and know more about antagonists other than that they're against the protagonist)


Those are some of the things im struggling with in my screen writing. I need to figure out what the enemy is, and give him a purpose and a motive for being what it is. But i also need to make it well 'make sense' and interesting.:(

[Master Sin]

Those are some of the things im struggling with in my screen writing. I need to figure out what the enemy is, and give him a purpose and a motive for being what it is. But i also need to make it well 'make sense' and interesting.:(
I'm making a story too, the villain in mine was thought of to be a good guy at first. Then, later you find out that he worked for the organization that destroyed the main characters whole family. The reason why is because of the way he was brought up. He was raised only in that organization, and if you leave it, you die. He didn't have much of a chance to find out what was out in the world. However, he wants the main character dead so badly because the main character was supposed to be in the organization as well, but chose not to go. It was the villains duty to kill him. However, the main character was thought of to be more powerful when he grew up and reached his full potential, the villain couldn't stand that.

I kind of rambled a bit, Cubical, but hope this gives you an idea, at least!

[Piffy]

I know people are going to call me names for saying this but that doesn't strike me as a very original story, Master Sin. Unless, of course, something were to happen that was unexpected; such as the villain succeeding in his mission and killing the main character and then having a change of heart and carrying out his victim's mission, whatever it is.

[Master Sin]

Well, it's not really the whole story, just the villains motivation for killing the main character, and why he is the way he is. Making a villain is one of the hardest things to do, and it's pretty hard to make the villain original, so sometimes you have to copy a little from other stories you've seen and piece it together.

[Cubical]

I'm making a story too, the villain in mine was thought of to be a good guy at first. Then, later you find out that he worked for the organization that destroyed the main characters whole family. The reason why is because of the way he was brought up. He was raised only in that organization, and if you leave it, you die. He didn't have much of a chance to find out what was out in the world. However, he wants the main character dead so badly because the main character was supposed to be in the organization as well, but chose not to go. It was the villains duty to kill him. However, the main character was thought of to be more powerful when he grew up and reached his full potential, the villain couldn't stand that.

I kind of rambled a bit, Cubical, but hope this gives you an idea, at least!

I got 3 i have to work with and i got most of the ideas out

1. is a gangster flick, 1930's backdrop

2. is a realistic about dog fighting, current backdrop

3. is futuristic, about a teens parents being taken away after an alien accidently shows up

I got character designs and stuff but im not willing to show it on the internet untill i get a copyright placed on them first

[Old Mandrill]

The 3 I'm working on is...

1. Horror story about a themepark under mind control. Think a zombie thriller with mindcontrol instead of zombies. ( has alot of bugs to work out )

2. Fantasy story about how all the characters good and bad in the world have to unite to stop from being destroyed.

3. A kid in school who thinks of himself as a sentai hero, plays dodgeball, and is the butt of many cruel jokes...how long will it take for him to snap into reality? ( Don Quixote anyone? )

[Mushironsha]

I like to play with moral points of view. I haven't written in a while, but I'm thinking about writing three different accounts of the same fictional war, one from each country involved. Each would present the supposed author's country as occupying the moral high ground. The tough part is making it believable.

[Old Mandrill]

I'm making a story too, the villain in mine was thought of to be a good guy at first. Then, later you find out that he worked for the organization that destroyed the main characters whole family. The reason why is because of the way he was brought up. He was raised only in that organization, and if you leave it, you die. He didn't have much of a chance to find out what was out in the world. However, he wants the main character dead so badly because the main character was supposed to be in the organization as well, but chose not to go. It was the villains duty to kill him. However, the main character was thought of to be more powerful when he grew up and reached his full potential, the villain couldn't stand that.

I kind of rambled a bit, Cubical, but hope this gives you an idea, at least!

I suggest dumbing down your story to a simple sentence and then build off of that, that was you can tweek what you have earlier without losing the point. If your story is essentially about two characters you're going to have to try REALLY REALLY hard to make me care about those two, and dramatics alone won't do it. You'll have to make them react like humans, insecurities, hopes, dreams, all of it.
I like to play with moral points of view. I haven't written in a while, but I'm thinking about writing three different accounts of the same fictional war, one from each country involved. Each would present the supposed author's country as occupying the moral high ground. The tough part is making it believable.

I think moral points of view are alot of fun, because if you make an answer morally ambigious, the reader goes "oh gosh....would I do that? Is that right? I don't know!" It becomes more engrossing. My favorite types of these stories nail you with so many moral dilemmas, that when there isn't one its like breathing fresh air and you can relax for that moment.

[Piffy]

Personally, I hate the idea of villains and heroes. It's too easy and so black and white. People are never that simple. To me, as a general rule, good characters come in shades of grey.

I like to play with moral points of view. I haven't written in a while, but I'm thinking about writing three different accounts of the same fictional war, one from each country involved. Each would present the supposed author's country as occupying the moral high ground. The tough part is making it believable.
I thought that was the basic premise of Final Fantasy XIII?

[Master Sin]

Personally, I hate the idea of villains and heroes. It's too easy and so black and white. People are never that simple. To me, as a general rule, good characters come in shades of grey.
Well, it isn't really the generic hero/villain premise. He has a lot of faults, especially early on, and isn't really concerned with being a hero. All he wants to do is protect his friends later on in the story. He could care less about fighting to do away with evil unless they threaten the people he cares about.

[Old Mandrill]

Personally, I hate the idea of villains and heroes. It's too easy and so black and white. People are never that simple. To me, as a general rule, good characters come in shades of grey.


I thought that was the basic premise of Final Fantasy XIII?

I agree, but having a starting and ending point for a character helps you fluctuate all those diffrent levels of good and evil. Besides GOOD heros and villians are never black and white.

[Old Mandrill]

Hated characters
Dying Slut-
This reminded me how much I hate certain types of characters. Oh god do I hate those.

Super Badass-
I also dislike the "silent and strong" type that dosn't go through much or any character development, or change of heart.

Favorite types of characters-

Legendary Hero?-
The legendary hero, that's hyped to no fucking end ( in the storyline ) to find out he really isn't the hero everyone thought he was...sometimes he turns out to be a villian or sometimes he lives up to his legend in the end.

Reluctant Hero-
The hero for whatever reason is selfish or unable until a moment of choice
where he overcomes all personal issues in the end.

Anti-Hero- A badguy who could be selfish, or faulty but at some point he can't avoid being a hero, due to personal feelings.

Good Villian!
Pokey Minch
This guy starts off as the overweight, pig nosed spoiled kid next door that everyone secretly hates, he pretends to be your friend and talks shit behind your back anything he says is usually a lie. He's got one decent little brother, but his parents are fat pigs ( think of the family harry potter lives with ) Throughout earthbound he just gets more and more selfish until he teams up with the final boss, a crazy fucking alien. But he's not even done yet. In mother 3 he travels time and space, to create a future in his image, gets people killed, hypnotises others, kidnaps people, sets peoples houses on fire, turns helpless animals into cyborgs and mutants, PUTS OLD PEOPLE IN A shady OLD HOME! hahah! And even though he's a withered old man, he still acts like a selfish little kid, ( he never aged mentally ) stepping on people to re-create his previous world. Possibly my new all time favorite Villian.
Classic grey villian, getting blacker and blacker.

Mad Pierrot-
from cowboy bebop, this guy was really scary because you couldn't get into his head, he moved unnaturally, creepy soul-less expression, and was basically a freakish superhuman monster. Second favorite villian I suppose. He was only evil in the sense he couldn't understand death or other people's pain since had the mind of a child.

[Cubical]

Actually, for my futuristic one, im making my so called antagonists have a very valid reason for being bad guys. Their race gets infected with a horrible disease, which crippes their numbers so much they had to rely on other alien spieces to help find a cure. Since these types of aliens have the largest financal power in the region, they out of desperation enslave many races to help mine under ground. While the surface of the world is pretty much barren, there are actually forests underground. And according to local legends theres a plant there that is said to have healing and mutagenic properties.

Like/Dislike the idea?

[Piffy]

You don't need to get defencive, Master Sin. That last comment wasn't directed at you. xD

And, jeebus, Mad Pierrot scared the CRAP out of me. The first time I saw that episode I was all alone in the apartment at night and I wished I had a diaper. The best part about Pierrot, in my opinion, was that by the end of the episode you really felt for him ... even though you were still scared shitless of him.

@Cubical: That's a very vague summary but there are parts of it that I really like, particularly the hollow earth part. The aliens and disease bit makes me think of a story Peach was working on when we first met and I keep bugging her to do -- so that part I like as well. xD

[Master Sin]

That's a pretty valid reason. I don't mind when antagonists are bad as long as they have a point as to why they're bad. I don't mind pure evil antagonists either, it's a really picky thing and depends on the situation. Even pure evil antagonists need to have a reason that they are the way they are.

EDIT: To Piffy!
Oh, I wasn't offended, I just love to get into discussions like these!

[Cubical]

Its vague since i'm trying to think of all of the story, its written in summery form i just need to add dialog/scene/details

[Piffy]

@Cubical: I assumed as much so I was just giving my thoughts on what you'd given us.

@Master Sin: With me, I think a villain has to either have a valid reason that most people will relate with, to the point that the reader/viewer puts themselves in the villain's shoes and asks themselves what they would do in that situation or the villain is just a plain old asshole who no one understands at all but you love to hate. There's no inbetween for me. xD

[raskolnikov]

I'm not sure if this is what this thread is about, but for me the most important aspect of a great story is interpretive openness. A poem is not a pulpit, a script is not a sermon; I want a story that lets me apply my experiences, emotions, and beliefs to make it my own.

I am not against a story exploring a specific theme, what I am against is authorial interference in what should be the character's story. If the poorly masked hand of providence directs the outcome so as to benefit a specific thematic conclusion I feel as if the fiction I've invested myself in has dissolved into a manifesto.

A story I particularly enjoyed, and that deals with the tension between authorial interference and the integrity of the story, is John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman.

[Old Mandrill]

I'm not sure if this is what this thread is about, but for me the most important aspect of a great story is interpretive openness. A poem is not a pulpit, a script is not a sermon; I want a story that lets me apply my experiences, emotions, and beliefs to make it my own.

I am not against a story exploring a specific theme, what I am against is authorial interference in what should be the character's story. If the poorly masked hand of providence directs the outcome so as to benefit a specific thematic conclusion I feel as if the fiction I've invested myself in has dissolved into a manifesto.

A story I particularly enjoyed, and that deals with the tension between authorial interference and the integrity of the story, is John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman.

So you're against an overlying plot or point, in favor for characters to wander around aimlessly?

[crash]

Favorite Stories:
Bombos Vs. Everything. :)))))))))))

[raskolnikov]

So you're against an overlying plot or point, in favor for characters to wander around aimlessly?No, I think a clearer statement on my part would be to say I prefer character-driven plot developments. In particular my gripe is with some Victorian literature where events beyond a character's control (e.g. inheritance) determine the thematic significance of the story.

I want the characters that I am invested in to be the ones who shape the story's events and outcomes, as opposed to a pre-determined grand narrative he is being a puppet to. Although I suppose there is a place for that as well (such as in a story about destiny, or Calvinism, etc).

Favorite Stories:
Bombos Vs. Everything. :)))))))))))I own a copy of this, and I have been meaning to say I quite enjoyed it.

[Old Mandrill]

No, I think a clearer statement on my part would be to say I prefer character-driven plot developments. In particular my gripe is with some Victorian literature where events beyond a character's control (e.g. inheritance) determine the thematic significance of the story.
Ooooohhh... Yes okay I can totally get behind that. Thought a few characters speckled with fate out of their hands can add some real contrast to the ones that do have free roam....But yes as signifigance of the story it really can serve to flatten the story.

I want the characters that I am invested in to be the ones who shape the story's events and outcomes, as opposed to a pre-determined grand narrative he is being a puppet to. Although I suppose there is a place for that as well (such as in a story about destiny, or Calvinism, etc).
I own a copy of this, and I have been meaning to say I quite enjoyed it.
Ahhh I think you will like this new story I am working on, it really depends on characters individual decisions mashing against one another. But in the end I want to force everyone of diffrent opinions, heros, villians, to work together.

Favorite Stories:
Bombos Vs. Everything. :)))))))))))
Haha thanks guys, <3 but just so you know I didn't write it, I only had a hand in fight scenes and about the last 20% of the book.

[Cubical]

Generally artists out of college usually have to work on someone elses story for a good 5-10years before they can get in the spot light =\

[Piffy]

Generally artists out of college usually have to work on someone elses story for a good 5-10years before they can get in the spot light =\
Unless you have a good fan-base and you publish your comics yourself. Case in point, Spike over @ Templar, AZ (http://templaraz.com) funded a print run for her first issue by taking commissions and now she has a distribution deal with Diamond.

So, it can be done.

[Master Sin]

I'm sort of making my story for fun, but I never really thought about making it into a comic or whatever, mostly because I have just about no artistic talent. Kind of sucks, but oh well, I enjoy the hobby!

[Old Mandrill]

Just make the story. Don't worry about the comic part yet.

I've made stories without any art, ( which was good ) because later I scrap parts of it or my sotires evolve into other stories.

[Cubical]

Thats pretty much how i do it, spend a few hours drawing random ideas, thinking with heavy music on, then the idea hits me like a train from behind.

[Rav]

i honestly dont find that much depth in video game characters or plots -- additionally, overrated literature that everyone had to do a book report on in high school (i.e. mark twain's work, much of jane austen..) although mentioning jane austen, darcy is still one of my favourite characters
anyway, i feel that this thread is lacking discussion of protagonists and antagonists rather than "heros and villains". raskolnikov touched on what i enjoy, maybe piffy was insinuating it as well, but if youre looking to make a comic book i guess it's not possible to incorporate a novel into whatever

[Old Mandrill]

Another type I'd like to add to the like list.
The villian who has been totally screwed over, again and again and again, until he says "fuck it, ill make everyone as misrible as I am" They didn't start off bad, some one made them bad! Good example of this? Hmmm Big Boss.

i honestly dont find that much depth in video game characters or plots It's a whole other medium. So you have to expect diffrent things from it, additionally not every videogame plot is good, just like not every book has a good story....It's up to personal prefernce alot of the time.

-- additionally, overrated literature that everyone had to do a book report on in high school (i.e. mark twain's work, much of jane austen..) although mentioning jane austen, darcy is still one of my favourite characters
anyway, i feel that this thread is lacking discussion of protagonists and antagonists rather than "heros and villains".
Fine Instead of using the words "hero and "villians" I will use the proper and much longer term "protagonist and antagonists" Shesh. As for overrated works, just because somthing is hyped up dosn't mean you still can't appreciate it for what it is.

raskolnikov touched on what i enjoy, maybe piffy was insinuating it as well, but if youre looking to make a comic book i guess it's not possible to incorporate a novel into whatever
How do you know I can't do that? I'm fucking Maximo Lorenzo, I CAN DO ANYTHING.

[Rav]

Fine Instead of using the words "hero and "villians" I will use the proper and much longer term "protagonist and antagonists" Shesh.
no, the characters you mention ARE direct heroes and villains. "protagonists and antagonists" from the books i read are not "futuristic" (even when i am reading sci-fi) or involved in literal epic battles, and even though someone stated they liked characters without "super powers" they were still too defined as .. the good guy/bad guy. im thinking about normal people with questionable moral/ethics, that you explore through plot devices and other characters...and the list goes on. also it becomes more subjective whether any of the characters are "good/bad". for example there are a plethora of imperfect characters who serve only to learn about & succumb to human nature, but i cant really explain much more right now if you still dont follow

As for overrated works, just because somthing is hyped up dosn't mean you still can't appreciate it for what it is.
i stated a lot of jane austen's work is overrated but stated i am in love with darcy -- from her most overrated piece, pride & prejudice of course -- regardless of this. aka i demonstrated my appreciation for something despite its hype

[Old Mandrill]

no, the characters you mention ARE direct heroes and villains.
I'm mentioning ones I like, that dosn't mean all my characters will be literal hero and villian archtypes, using their personalities or ambitions or avoiding them can help me create a new character or keep it from being too much like one stereotype.

"protagonists and antagonists" from the books i read are not "futuristic" (even when i am reading sci-fi) or involved in literal epic battles, and even though someone stated they liked characters without "super powers" they were still too defined as .. the good guy/bad guy. im thinking about normal people with questionable moral/ethics, that you explore through plot devices and other characters...and the list goes on. also it becomes more subjective whether any of the characters are "good/bad". for example there are a plethora of imperfect characters who serve only to learn about & succumb to human nature, but i cant really explain much more right now if you still dont follow
Oh no I get it. You just mean characters that arn't defined so well as good and bad. But actually cliches and sterotypes can make a story run faster, more clearly, or totally turn around expectations. I'm not saying you should avoid normal human characteristics far from it, I think that part allows you to actually sympathise with a character. What I mean is if realistic characters are the meat, characters with roles, or cliches can be the spice. Too much can be AWFUL, but just enough can really add some POW! to a story. ( and thats why I am very careful about my comics I read, alot of them are just too much POW! and not enough substance. )

If you like your stories without that extra frill, so be it but I think it's a worthy endevour.


i stated a lot of jane austen's work is overrated but stated i am in love with darcy -- from her most overrated piece, pride & prejudice of course -- regardless of this. aka i demonstrated my appreciation for something despite its hype
I think story hype ( which is realitive ) dosn't have much to do with a good story or this thread.

[Cubical]

Rav, ever see the movie The Third Man?

Explaination of the movie

http://www.filmsite.org/thir.html

Clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_SQyCJega8

The bad guy isnt really revealed untill later. Even then alot of people cant believe hes done bad things. And the lead character is only trying to get information on his old friend. He is not really seen as a protagonist.

Also, many critics, from 1949, feel that Anna was the hero in this film because she kept true to her love to harry even if he was on the run from the police. Like wise she refused to help the police because she would rather see him alive.


Another cool fact, this was filmed on location at Veinna after WW2 ended. So Veinna was occupied by French, English, Russian, and someone else.

[Rav]

I think story hype ( which is realitive ) dosn't have much to do with a good story or this thread.im pretty sure its on topic to this thread: you state disliking bad cliches (which again is subjective) - many cliches spring off from popular things that are done to death. i only even introduced it to demonstrate what people like me dislike (things/stories that everyone has already experienced a million times over). im not sure where you got the impression that i didnt appreciate things that are "hyped up" (in actuality, done to death) when i clearly admitted that i do like things despite their overrated qualities, so i reiterated this since you seemed to miss that....so im thinking im still on track
my point was i think there are a lot of other types of characters that weren't commented on as being likable or not, despite how prominent a lot of them are in common literature, felt like something was missing


that movie sounds really interesting, aside from the slight twist mainly for the last part: i love moral/ethical dilemmas that have no true solution. eventually they remind you that everything we define as right/wrong sprung solely from human fabrications, which is kind of unsettling (that there are no "true" rights/wrongs)
yeah

[Old Mandrill]

im pretty sure its on topic to this thread: you state disliking bad cliches (which again is subjective) - many cliches spring off from popular things that are done to death. i only even introduced it to demonstrate what people like me dislike (things/stories that everyone has already experienced a million times over). im not sure where you got the impression that i didnt appreciate things that are "hyped up" (in actuality, done to death) when i clearly admitted that i do like things despite their overrated qualities, so i reiterated this since you seemed to miss that....so im thinking im still on track
my point was i think there are a lot of other types of characters that weren't commented on as being likable or not, despite how prominent a lot of them are in common literature, felt like something was missing


that movie sounds really interesting, aside from the slight twist mainly for the last part: i love moral/ethical dilemmas that have no true solution. eventually they remind you that everything we define as right/wrong sprung solely from human fabrications, which is kind of unsettling (that there are no "true" rights/wrongs)
yeah

Great. Thanks for killing the topic Rav.

[Rav]

=)

[Old Mandrill]

=)

Next time try being less boring and souless in a discussion :(

[Cubical]

WkHYVvLBAJs

F_SQyCJega8

[Rav]

so much one could say, hahaha
everyone thinks theyre a critic =)

[Old Mandrill]

ANYWAY, So anyone here- any videogame stories or characters that have captured your sympathy or hate...who/what and why?

And Ashley, don't you find the lack of story in Metroid games somewhat enticing? I actually enjoy it.

I dig the rat Villian because beastly/animalistic villians are better at being savage.

[Deviattor]

Tone it down a little please. Also remember so attack someone's argument, not the person themselves.

[Cubical]

Metriod prime does have a good story. The problem with some players in MP is that they dont bother reading the scans. I watched this guy Let's Play the MP series and he would take time to read the lore and the pirate scans to the audiance. When he read it, he would actually summerize what is going on, since the way that the story is written out in MP can be somewhat confusing. [They use a similar type of fancy language to tell the story so having someone tell it to you in a laymens terms helped alot of people understand it] Also the fact that you were alone on some of the Prime series might also turn some people off.

Ratican is one of my favorite villians because he had alot of personality. He was a gentlemen and polite most of the time. But when his anger set in it really showed what type of person he was. Even if he became angery, he stopped himself, combed back his air and went back to being a somewhat decent guy. Some villians today have no self control at all. They're just mindless and crazy, while as Ratican actually had control over his anger and was a charming nice guy on the outside. In my film class, we discussed these types of charming villians are often the most interesting villians. You can see this in The Third Man vid i posted too. Where our villian harry looks like a charming nice guy.

[Old Mandrill]

Metriod prime does have a good story. The problem with some players in MP is that they dont bother reading the scans. I watched this guy Let's Play the MP series and he would take time to read the lore and the pirate scans to the audiance. When he read it, he would actually summerize what is going on, since the way that the story is written out in MP can be somewhat confusing. [They use a similar type of fancy language to tell the story so having someone tell it to you in a laymens terms helped alot of people understand it] Also the fact that you were alone on some of the Prime series might also turn some people off.
yeah if you read the lore and scans it writes the story out for you...Although I enjoyed it I think I perfered Zero Mission in terms of story. What I REALLY enjoy is the "show" not "tell" games/movies/comics can do over literature, ( not dissing literature, but it's why I like doing comics ) It can be really engaging to learn visually what other characters know as they themselves learn things.

Ratican is one of my favorite villians because he had alot of personality. He was a gentlemen and polite most of the time. But when his anger set in it really showed what type of person he was. Even if he became angery, he stopped himself, combed back his air and went back to being a somewhat decent guy. Some villians today have no self control at all. They're just mindless and crazy, while as Ratican actually had control over his anger and was a charming nice guy on the outside. In my film class, we discussed these types of charming villians are often the most interesting villians. You can see this in The Third Man vid i posted too. Where our villian harry looks like a charming nice guy.

Agreed, I like villians that show emotion especcially when they can't hide how messed up they really are. Souless calm deviod of emotion characters really piss me off. I don't think they are negatible because they definately bring somthing to the table...but man they piss me off.

[Cubical]

Thats the problem with Metriod Prime, the story isnt handed to you, you sort of discover it yourself in your travels. I guess thats the problem with really solo games like that. No people to interact with.

I dont like villians that are the ones that think their badass and nothing else matters except them and only them.

[Old Mandrill]

I dont like villians that are the ones that think their badass and nothing else matters except them and only them.

Really? Isn't Ratican a villian like that?

[Cubical]

He showed alot more emotion than that. He was bad ass yea, but he also cared about his pet cat and showed more of a broader range emotion. While he is mood swining he does it in a way that is charming. Like when he is discussing making a deal with the toy maker, he plays with the ballerina toy the guy made. He looks at it as if he was in a trance saying that it would be too bad if something happend to his daughter. The toy maker watches in horror.
Ratican picks up the doll almost lovingly then he sqeezes the life out of it untill it breaks. He frowns, looks at Flavishum and screams, "FINISH IT FLAVISHUM". He smiles, as he heads towards the door, he grabs the handle and calmly reminds the toy maker of when the Queen look-a-like is due then slams the door.

When I mean bad ass im refering to maybe something like Devil May Cry, where even the main character is almost 'too bad ass' for us. He only really shows more emotion towards the end of the first game. Even the final villian has a god complex. He shows up kills his own minions laughs then teleports away. Thats not really character development.

[Regn]

This topic is old, but I just had to throw stuff in. I'm working on a couple of stories myself, most of them based on real life incidents with some fantasy thrown in.

Likes

Dynamic and well developed characters. This includes both protagonists and antagonists. I want to know who he or she is, what they are doing, why they are doing it, and how they are doing it. If those requirements are fulfilled, then its a character that will be remembered for a long time.

A good setting. As long as it has lots of description and seems realistic (even if its fantasy), I like it. Appealing to the five senses helps too.

Rich dialogue between characters. It reveals personality, character, objectives, and countless other things. If a conversation is talking place between a rich school student and some punk from the ghetto, the difference in dialect makes it seem real.

Interesting conflicts. I don't care if its an epic battle between the good guy and bad guy (those I usually like), or a man trying to unlock a door with no key to be found. Make it so the audience can relate to it in some way.

Dislikes

Note: Some of this might be targetting manga and mainstream media, but I had to mention them.

Flashy and overpowered magic or abilities. I will say that sometimes you need to have that one overpowered skill that one or a couple characters have (for example, Scar from Full Metal Alchemist) that makes things interesting. But please, don't make everyone have it, like Goten and Trunks being able to turn Super Saiyan.

Extremely long drawn out battles. In my own stories, I'm only reserving the longer fight scenes for the important characters in the story, with a long build-up and plot beforehand. In an Anime or movie, this would be no longer than 30 minutes max. That's it. I couldn't stand it when non-epic battles in some Anime would last more than six episodes.

Flat characters. See above what I like.

Actions without a reason. It might be cool to level an entire city and score a ten on the badass meter, but why did you do it? Pointless killing is kind of... meh.

Recycled plots and objectives. Okay, it's hard to think of something completely original these days, but let's face it. After a while, it gets old knowing that the bad guy is the good guy's father or brother. The good guy's girlfriend possesses some ancient relic (or is the relic). I can accept world domination or destruction as a plot device, but make it has to be interesting at least.

Stupid antagonists. I love watching the old school cartoons and movies with a clueless villian, but in a serious story, he or she has to be intelligent. When you have the hero right where you want him, you kill him. Do not leave him for dead. Do not assume he is dead. Not leave him rotting in a prison with poor surveillance. Do not have one fatal flaw in your space station. You get the idea.

Stupid heroes. Why on Earth does Ash let Misty, May, and Dawn follow him everywhere and not get laid once? Why does Naruto chase after Sakura when Hinata wants his nuts? Why did Vegeta let Cell absorb Android 18 when Cell would become godly powerful? I just hate that.

The generic healer with a cute face, showing tons of cleavage every scene, and is completely worthless for everything else. Okay, I like my female characters to be cute and be attractive too, but they have to at least be important to the story. A character that I liked that had the best of both was Yuna from Final Fantasy X.

Overpowered skill contests. Good examples of this are Dragonball Z, or even PvP in iRO. Bankai and cero in Bleach are also getting old too.

Stereotypes. Enough said here.

[Inconsistencies and plot holes[/B]. As a story writer, I also make sure those are gone, otherwise the story itself is garbage. If I'm more powerful than Person A, and Person B is weaker than Person A, Person B should not beat me in a fight of pure strength. Now if Person B thinks strategically, than that's different.

I think I'm done.