Backstab

[Zable Fahr]

I recently stumbled over this skill. Once really good and now rarely used.

My question here is:

Could it actually be used for levelling in Thors? Since normally one Person can tank the monster --> even though you'd use a meelee-skill on it the monster doesn't switch targets. <-- it would be a fairly nice damage output.

There are several possibilities in this thought. I don't know how it is, it's simply guessing.

1. The Monster turns on you as soon as you performed Backstab.
2. The Monster actually turns around and is still attacking the tank, but the game says, you don't stand behind it.
3. The Monster turns around and turns back on his next attack to the tank.
4. The Monster turns around and turns back to the tank after a fixed amount of time.

Point 3 would be the optimal case. What do you think about it? Is it even worth trying? Sure, there are better killers, but if you want to level a Rogue--> Stalker...

[Ojimaru]

even though you'd use a meelee-skill on it the monster doesn't switch targets
As far as I've seen, not true. All aggro monsters switch targets if attacked by somebody within their normal attack range.

[Zable Fahr]

Try it... You can easily level on anything simply using skills - not attacking normally. The problem are the monsters, that switch target randomly like clocks. I mean, I leveled like this at anolians using envenom ^^

[KosoKoso]

In my experience some aggressive monsters change target b/c they're simply set to like dark frames or what not and some are random like joker but backstab is fun since my rogue can one shot back stab hill winds....wonder wat else I can one shot backstab :stir:

[Doddler]

The monster's facing is not normally updated unless the monster moves. There's a few ways you can get around this. You can position yourself directly on the monsters cell. This is known as 'spiral' backstab, given because the monster keeps spinning in place trying to face away from you. This is easiest to achieve by attacking while moving over the monsters cell. This doesn't usually work unless the monsters last move was diagonal. You can also use backslide to get onto the monsters cell.

Alternatively you can dance the skill.


- - -
- M>-
1 - 2
M represents the monsters position, with > showing its initial facing. You go to 1, use backstab, then move to 2, backstab, and keep jumping between the two cells, constantly using backstab.

Backstab is a pretty powerful skill but its tough to get into the right situation where its useful. :)

[Cute Wittle Corgi]

can you still do it to where you're on top of the monster you don't have to dance with it and you're constantly backstabbing


I loved to do this down in UG on jokers

[Avarah]

I backstabbed my way to 99 on my rogue. It's easy to spam once you learn how to "dance" around an enemy like doddler explained. The damage is quite high, beating even bowling bash, and it never misses. I plan on getting backstab 10 after I max full divest on my stalker, in lieu of counter instinct.

[Xxelos]

Actually, I find it more effective to backstab like this when possible

- - -
1 M -
- 2 -


monster is facing SE -> stab on left side
monster turns NW -> Stab on bottom

It leads to the least amount of tiles covered when dancing backstab.

[Yansibar]

Backstab is actualy pretty underrated for pvp. On a full divested opponent I can get an average of like 4k damage, and if you do like some of the others have explained its pretty spammable. I would never use it in WoE though, its pretty easy to pot through then.

[Atum]

Curious : how much does backstab hit in woe?
Does it turn around players who already are hitting targets?

Just as an idea : rogues could spam backstab on emphitting sins.
But since i never played a rogue i dont know if that is effective^^

[KosoKoso]

I would love to see a BS rogue use it on a frozen oppoenent in PvP damage is probably massive. Its also really easy to freeze people to since no one ever comes in w/ a unfrozen, I would test it but my rogue is too low of a lvl at the moment, I guess I'll mess around later when I get home later

[Sho Lin]

Masive? It's 300% less than mammo. It's not that "massive"

[Yansibar]

Curious : how much does backstab hit in woe?
Does it turn around players who already are hitting targets?

Just as an idea : rogues could spam backstab on emphitting sins.
But since i never played a rogue i dont know if that is effective^^


Backstab still does decent damage in woe, but its easily outpotted. It will still turn players around no matter what their doing. It may not actualy show them turned but you wont be able to hit again until you move to their other side. In WoE you should be doing more important things like stripping, rather than trying to do damage.

[Yansibar]

Masive? It's 300% less than mammo. It's not that "massive"

Mammo actually does 100% less than backstab.


Sorry for double post but the sho lin dude posted at the exact same time I did.

[WK]

Also works with flying kick+BS, gotta have the monster facing the opposing direction initially though, which is impossible without a tank on agro monsters.

- - - - - - - -
FK>- - M>T - -
- - - - - - - -

[Sho Lin]

My bad I never did get why I thought it was 1000% Still it isn't all that strong though.

[KosoKoso]

my rogue is lvl 61 atm and my stats are aren't maxed yet atm i have decent str and low dex. The screenies speak for themselves, I used a few weapons just for fun, but so far from my findings the BS damage even when frozen w/o gears doesn't compare to my stalker's BB damage at all, maybe next time i should freeze w/ my stalker and us BS w/ a bow but that's a whole other story. Maybe future test can compare. I do like the damage with BS since the lack of dagger rogue skills though and I am talking about dagger/sword. Damage is quite impressive at a low lvl though. I also want to try other tests with endowed bloody weapon, but atm I am just using wind weapon b/c I don't have the bloody weapon yet.

Lvl 61 Rogue stats:
Str: 54+21
AGi:60+17
Dex:30+16

all other stats at 1

Lvl 92 Priest Stats:
Vit: 74+6
Int: 99+15
Dex: 25+14

all other stats don't really matter since it was a messed up build

the first screenie is w/ CK w/ gears which include immune/poopoo/+4 cranial and the 2nd w/ CK but w/o gears

the next screenie is w/ icepick, in this screenie, the gears are the same as previous and the 4th screenie is w/o geares

this last screenie, the rogue is using a regular +5 Wind Damas, she's was frozen and gearless. With gears you guys can do the math and get that I'm getting quite tired.

Enjoy,

~Koso

[Yansibar]

Double bloody bonned saber is usualy best for most targets. Daggers get a crappy size mod for medium enemies. If I feel like it I can show some better damage screens.

[Xxelos]

That is a really shitty test. It would be like showing the potential damage of double strafe with a 60 dex hunter using a npc gak with wind arrows on a frozen target. :P

::EDIT::
Also, using a bow for backstab isn't a good idea either. Bow backstab damage is cut in half, so you are looking at 350% damage with level 10.

[KosoKoso]

well my rogue is still at a low lvl, and yes I don't have the right equipment atm, but for those who want to mess around w/ BS in PvP/PvM there is potential if you go dagger/sword. I wasn't expecting the results to be superb, I just use BS in PvM for fun. As a PvM rogue, I would rather go the bow intimidate route, but why bother when I have a stalker that can already do that and this rogue was just for hunting items. I just wanted BS just to mess around with while I was hunting.

[not fat bard]

There was a 99 stalker flying kick + backstab to 99 he had preserve and backstab 10. Pretty slick, but I like fullstrip, if I do anything I'll drop CI for slyness and stalk 5 maybe..

[Yansibar]

That stalker has both counter instinct and full divest. But his full divest is only lv 4 and CI is 2.

[bluemage]

I remember when this skill used to be da bomb, till they epic nerf it :(

[The Jesus]

Yeah I remember pesky BS Rogues running around PVP right after Comodo patch.

[WK]

I remember owning hard with it. Mainly hunters and assassins who thought their flee was the shit.

I also remember blurr. :)

[bluemage]

why did they have to epic nerf it?! >o< It used to be my 1 true love in RO

[Foul Play]

easiest way to backstab imo




































































use two rogues/stalkers on opposite sides of target!!

[WK]

That's like instadeath on anything!!

[Cute Wittle Corgi]

I also remember blurr. :)

I saw him in pvp on my first sin and would laugh at THE ENTIRE PVP ROOM stopping what they were doing and focused all their attention to kill him

and he would still own one or two people before he'd die

[Foul Play]

my original stalker build was going to be a bow/dagger hybrid build with backstab ten...until it became a guild leader.

[Simple.]

Yeah they ruined backstab. I miss all the old Str Rogues walking around BS'ing people =/.

They should really bring it back with 3rd classes. It's your job to get the fucker off your back, shouldn't be flipped around!

[Lupus]

I agree entirely! :)

[Jinchuu]

Another good way to get ontop or inside your BS target is to: BS, click opposite side, then BS again as your sprite is walking through your target.


- - - - -
- 1 M 2 -
- - - - -


Btw, back to the question of WoE. If you BS an emp breaker, would it hinder their breaking?

[Avarah]

I'm getting backstab 10 and forgoing CI completely after I max divests.

[Simple.]

Another good way to get ontop or inside your BS target is to: BS, click opposite side, then BS again as your sprite is walking through your target.


- - - - -
- 1 M 2 -
- - - - -


Btw, back to the question of WoE. If you BS an emp breaker, would it hinder their breaking?

Interesting question!

[Sho Lin]

What do you mean they ruined backstab? It's called backstab not face stab.

[Foul Play]

before, backstab didnt turn the target towards you. it left the target as is, now after the target is backstabbed once, it automatically turns towards you.

[Simple.]

What do you mean they ruined backstab? It's called backstab not face stab.
You can't stab them in the face smartass.

You had to be behind them to stab them in the back, thus calling it backstab. Don't want to be stabbed in the back? Turn the fuck around.

Then for some odd reason they changed it to switch the target towards you. At this point they ruined the prospect of having a decent population of dagger rogues. Which sucks because at that point everyone just went bow if they wanted to be decent. No one is blaming them, who wants to have a shitty character?

I'd love to make a dagger stalker to 99 if they released powerful backstab like skills for the 3rd class stalker. I guess Assassin is RO's stealthy quick killing class though.

[Sho Lin]

wtf are you talking about? before you would bs the target then would turn around, and you could still spam back stab even when the target was facing you. hense the face stab.

before you could face stab, they FIXED it not ruined it.

Then for some odd reason they changed it to switch the target towards you.

No shit sherlock, dur tur dur you're stabbing me in the back I'm going to continue letting you do so.

[Xxelos]

The bigger problem you are failing to understand that even if a monster is being tanked by someone else and you backstab it from behind, it's "Back" will turn but it will still be facing the tank. Now the monster is attacking backwards towards the tank while facing you and doing nothing, explain how that makes sense? It should reset the back on every attack the monster does along with movement so it becomes viable to backstab targets being tanked (distracted) by someone else.

[Simple.]

wtf are you talking about? before you would bs the target then would turn around, and you could still spam back stab even when the target was facing you. hense the face stab.

before you could face stab, they FIXED it not ruined it.

Before the target had to voluntarily turn towards you. This was achieved by shift+clicking behind the Rogue. I remember PvPing on my 99 Wizard wayy back when there were probably only 2 or 3 99 BS Rogues on Loki. I had to make sure I could shift+click before I got raped. Trust me, they didn't fix backstab by implementing an auto-flip mechanic to it. They ruined it.

My point is, it's YOUR responsibility to not let the Rogue stay behind you, making the skill itself flip you around is retarded.

Gravity is infamous for putting in completely useless skills, Backstab wasn't one of them, until they decided they wanted it to be.


No shit sherlock, dur tur dur you're stabbing me in the back I'm going to continue letting you do so.
You don't even have to anymore, it flips you facing the Rogue. Making it easier on you to stop the Rogue, and making the skill's PVP feasibility plummet.

[Sho Lin]

The way it was before, i could attack the rogue, making me face him, and he still could bs me. That was retarded as hell.

[Jotaha]

But the skill wasn't broken.
The problem was that if you didn't shift+clicked like Simple said, even if you "faced" the rogue to hit him or whatever, your character wouldn't really change facing direction, just the sprite would, leting the Rogue continue with the backstabing. That was retarded as hell.

Even now, the only way you can change your facing direction without moving from one cell to another, is by shift+click.

When they wanted to fix the "facestab" issue they found out it was a lot simpler ruining Backstab than changing how facing directions works and really fix the problem.

[Simple.]

But the skill wasn't broken.
The problem was that if you didn't shift+clicked like Simple said, even if you "faced" the rogue to hit him or whatever, your character wouldn't really change facing direction, just the sprite would, leting the Rogue continue with the backstabing. That was retarded as hell.

Even now, the only way you can change your facing direction without moving from one cell to another, is by shift+click.

When they wanted to fix the "facestab" issue they found out it was a lot simpler ruining Backstab than changing how facing directions works and really fix the problem.
Yep. :stir:

[Wikipedia]

Can someone try and test this for me: FK>Close Confine=spammable BS?! Someone from my server claims this is 100% guaranteed. Can someone pls confirm and if it's a viable option?

Thanks

[Simple.]

Don't think it is, but worth a shot trying.

[Strip]

it works, as long as they dont move of course

[Craumb]

unnerf backstab /shy