MA? (off-topic around page 2)

[Aiofe]

Is MA 10 worth getting? (assuming it's a str/dex type killing build) Also does dex decrease the cast time?

I used to have have a sinx with MA, but it was never maxed and she was low so i never got to see if it had any potential for myself.

Anyways, any useful info about the skill is appreciated. <3

[Feint]

Dex does reduce the cast time. And MA is, in my opinion, worth it for all sinxs. However, using skill points on MA usually means you cannot have Cloaking maxed(but you should still be able to get level9 Cloaking).

I find it really useful with its insanely high stun chance. You can rape wizlines with it, and it's good against monks/champions that stand under a Pneuma and you're not soul linked.

[Nails]

^Ya MA rocks. But i normally drop GT for it and keep cloak max.

[Aiofe]

It's interesting to see people saying to get it. I was getting skeptical on it becuase i don't think i've seen anyone use it in a looooooooooooooong time.

[Draconis]

It's fairly useful. I have level 10 on my SD built sinx, and I can do 800-1k+ to people under Pneuma with the right weapons. 55% to status is nothing to laugh at. I'd drop GT for MA if I were to decide though.

[margafred]

Very high DEX + high ASPD + correct weapons + Poems on MVP + mobs = you know the rest already.

[Feint]

I like Grimtooth too much to drop it for MA. My SD built(1 Agi) sinx has Grimtooth maxed, but only level3 Cloaking on job 66. MA is amazing for not requiring you to equip a katar class weapon so you can just keep your Combat Knife or whatever you're using on and spam the crap out of people. MA also doesn't require hiding so it's often better than Grimtooth, but as its drawback, it doesn't work with EDP.

[Xellie]

I love MA 10.

anything less doesn't status enough / does shitty damage, MA is all or nothing, imo

[devo1]

Unless you get level 1 to hit stalkers out of stealth, which I see some people do.

[sp13]

MA is definitely worth getting, as the others have posted. It works wonders if you're able to sneak into an enemy strings and knock the crap out of their party/wizline. It also works well for killing classes who like to stay in pneumas; you can also follow up with an SD if they try to run.

[Xellie]

If it means anything, I use MA as a levelling tool. it's ridiculous with strings in places like ice caves.

[crash]

MA is absolutely wonderful. I've got level 10 on my Sin X, and I sacrificed 5 levels of Cloak to get it - a worthy trade, if you ask me. I rarely use it when leveling (like Xellie said, it's nice for when you get mobbed with 4~5 Titans in ID3), but it's amazing in WoE. Cloaking into a wizline and MAing the shit out of them helps a lot when the rest of your guild/allies are still spilling into the precast.

I do have to say, though, that if you don't have at least 170 aspd with katars, don't bother with Grimtooth - Cloak 10 is really nice, and I'd take it over a slow Grimtooth any day.

[Golden Fingers]

I took GT5/cloak5/MA10 although if I was dead serious about woe i'd drop GT for max cloak.

MA10's damage output is comparible to SD since its got a much smaller delay, and is more flexible than GT in terms of weapons/shields.

[Aiofe]

From all the positive feedback on the skill it looks like i'll be getting it. MA always looked good from the description and calcs so i guess it's as good as it seems from what you guys said.

thanks for the help. feel free to discuss it further here if you'd like.

[Sany'o]

I have a SB sinx and I lvled him with MA at niff2 until lvl90.

[goblin~]

if u have decent agi and use katars as a main weapon get grimtooth, in my experiece MA sucks. Yeah sure its good in ways like the above mentioned but when your in an enemy precast u get soul siphoned and stone cursed so fast youll just die. GRimtooth is great with edp, and if someone goes close enough to sight you, you sonic blow them dead.

[Sho Lin]

Why not have it all

DD build
http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20qKgFESyasNboGSJy

SD
http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20qKgFyswNmnbxGSJy

[Sany'o]

yea, I have GT and MA^^

[t3hHark]

I went 76-89 using MA to kill mobs. It may not be the most popular method anymore, but it worked well. I mobbed in Magma, CTHO and TI3 mostly, but ran the old Goats map (now Harpy central) a bit too. Magma and Goats were the easiest. Ice Haed main hand, Ice Pick off hand, switch to a shield if there are a lot of Kaho, lex SD Golems. Yay for 4m/hr, heh.

MA is unaffected by Agi, so it makes for a great alternate way to level high STR SD Sin-X. Self mobbing is also best, since getting hit seems to remove the after cast delay, similar to Occult Impact, or DS's animation delay. It's kind of like leveling a Rogue/Stalker with BB, but without worrying about gutter lines and spending about 3x the SP. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're Str>Int SD/SB and have at least decent dex (I had abnormal Dex for various reasons, about 90 total).

[Sho Lin]

Even for DD it's nice 4.4-4.9k to ice titans with 120str with an ice pick and a titan MG.

Or for woe strap a CK then go nuts on the wiz line

[crash]

if u have decent agi and use katars as a main weapon get grimtooth, in my experiece MA sucks. Yeah sure its good in ways like the above mentioned but when your in an enemy precast u get soul siphoned and stone cursed so fast youll just die. GRimtooth is great with edp, and if someone goes close enough to sight you, you sonic blow them dead.

You're not using MA correctly if you don't think it's good. There is a time to EDP Grimtooth, yes, but MA can be much more effective, especially with strings and the fact that you don't have to stay hidden for it. If you're trying to solo a guild with MA to the point where soul siphon and stone curse kills you, you're definitely not doing it right. Also, I'm pretty sure if somebody sees "Enchant Deadly Poison !!" above your head, you'll be dead a hell of a lot quicker than if somebody sees you Meteor Assaulting. Especially since people tend to under estimate MA.

Grimtooth is definitely not good enough to completely negate getting MA10.

[Rain]

Heres a pro tip. For anyone who decides to max MA 10, make sure you at least put one point into VD for obvious reasons. Also, if you have a low to zero agi build, grimtooth 3-4 would be enough because all you will be using this skill for is to edp people out of saftey wall.

- worlds best pvp sinx

[Sho Lin]

Why would you need VD for? It's nice skill if you have the extra point for it. However, it's hard pressing to get with any skill builds.

Grimtooth is definitely not good enough to completely negate getting MA10

I've raped whole guilds with grim tooth.

[Draconis]

The poison stat fx will lower the def somewhat, improving your MA damage.

[Sho Lin]

I would MA with a CK anyways

[goblin~]

You're not using MA correctly if you don't think it's good. There is a time to EDP Grimtooth, yes, but MA can be much more effective, especially with strings and the fact that you don't have to stay hidden for it. If you're trying to solo a guild with MA to the point where soul siphon and stone curse kills you, you're definitely not doing it right. Also, I'm pretty sure if somebody sees "Enchant Deadly Poison !!" above your head, you'll be dead a hell of a lot quicker than if somebody sees you Meteor Assaulting. Especially since people tend to under estimate MA.

Grimtooth is definitely not good enough to completely negate getting MA10.

i meant if you have agi get GT, it is only worth it if you have the aspd for it. But in either case I would never have anything less then 10 cloaking. The walk speed is needed for woe 2.0 when the guardians are buffed.

[Rain]

I would MA with a CK anyways

Doesn't matter, poison has other attributes than just reducing defense. With 12k hp poison usually takes about 10 seconds to bring someone down to red; and all this is being done passively on top of the MA damage.

More importantly, once VD goes down chances are the people who are affected will run out of the contaminated area, leaving Pnuema or safety wall, which allows you to make use of your "real" damage skills such as SD or SB. Psychologically, it can also mess up their train of thought as your screen turns pink and you want to deal with poison first. (Of course, this is for those who dont hotkey green pots.) Last but not least, being poisoned means you cant regain HP/SP. This means that if you're dealing with classes such as snipers/scholars (once they fail a siphon, slap down a VD), it will defiantly be useful.

You can also fool around in woe with VD. Slap down a VD on top of a portal where people are rushing in and 75% of them will be pink and having their HP drained consistently.

100% area effect poison which only takes 1 skill point is god sent. But so far i have only seen two people make use of it on Chaos / Loki other than me, and thats Jedwic.

[Draconis]

lv1 only lasts 5s and it takes a reagent that occupies potential pot weight. I used to use it quite a bit when I was a sin and had points to spare for lv10 (before skills change).

[Rain]

The thing is you can cast it on top of people, its not like a trap where you have to lure your opponent into so the shorter it is the better because i can control it in terms of who gets affected. Also to clarify the five seconds is the duration of the contaminated area, but once you're poisoned it depends on your vit as to how long. Most classes besides HP/Paladin/LK would be affected for a decent amount of time. As for the weight issue, well, it really isnt a issue seeing how red gems are only 3 weight and all (besides xellie) sinx's have high str and probably gym passes.

[Xellie]

Even I and my shitty str can carry red gems.

I actually have MA 10 / cloak 10 / SD 1 / VD 1 / GT 2 (levelling that to 5 with htting job 70, Im job 67)

[Dante]

Is it worthy to drop cloack from 9 to 5 and left hand mastery from 5 to 0, giving 9 points to 1 MA to make it 10 MA? Or would dropping RHM would be better choice than to drop cloack?

[Wingates]

Depends on how many speed pots you burn, I have 3 cloak and surely, its slow but I
never actually think i should have lv10 unless I ran out of speed pots.
Get 5RHM on any sin is a must.

[Amnesy]

Get 5RHM on any sinX is a must.

Why? I don't see any reason other than for breaking emps.

[Feint]

Why? I don't see any reason other than for breaking emps.

You can break Emps with Ice Pick and Cranial. No need for RHM at all then. RHM is only needed if you're using 2 daggers, which most sinxs never do as they are SD based. No idea why Wingates thinks it's a must.

[Dante]

So,

10 MA + 0 RHM + 0 LHM + 10 Cloak/[9 Cloak + 1 VD]

vs.

10 MA + 5 RHM + 0 LHM + 5 Cloack

choose the first one?

[Feint]

RHM 3 is required for...Meteor Assault or something if I recall correctly. So unless your server is badly messed up, you can't get the first one.

[Dante]

My bad. So 10 MA + 3 RHM + 0 LHM + 7 Cloak/[6 Cloak + 1 VD] is better?

[Feint]

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20GXsXyswNmnbxGSJy

That would be my sinx's job70 skillbuild. He's currently job66 and not likely to ever get any EXP, though.

If you're not going to use 2 daggers, the build with Cloaking6/7 and VD0/1 is better.

[Wingates]

You can break Emps with Ice Pick and Cranial. No need for RHM at all then. RHM is only needed if you're using 2 daggers, which most sinxs never do as they are SD based. No idea why Wingates thinks it's a must.

oh yea, i forgot i am pvm whore. wrong thread.

[Feint]

oh yea, i forgot i am pvm whore. wrong thread.

Even then, EVERY sinx does not need RHM5. SD sinxs are not likely to ever equip 2 daggers, so there is no need for them to have the skill. RHM, as well as LHM, is needed for the sinxs that level up using 2 daggers. Sinxs using katars or skills(such as SD) may not need it at all.

[Sho Lin]

Some of us are DD =/ it's like an extra 300 to an emp i think. If you can fit it why not?

[Sora`]

Doesn't matter, poison has other attributes than just reducing defense. With 12k hp poison usually takes about 10 seconds to bring someone down to red; and all this is being done passively on top of the MA damage.

More importantly, once VD goes down chances are the people who are affected will run out of the contaminated area, leaving Pnuema or safety wall, which allows you to make use of your "real" damage skills such as SD or SB. Psychologically, it can also mess up their train of thought as your screen turns pink and you want to deal with poison first. (Of course, this is for those who dont hotkey green pots.) Last but not least, being poisoned means you cant regain HP/SP. This means that if you're dealing with classes such as snipers/scholars (once they fail a siphon, slap down a VD), it will defiantly be useful.

You can also fool around in woe with VD. Slap down a VD on top of a portal where people are rushing in and 75% of them will be pink and having their HP drained consistently.

100% area effect poison which only takes 1 skill point is god sent. But so far i have only seen two people make use of it on Chaos / Loki other than me, and thats Jedwic.

12k hp on most classes is enough vit to not make poison worthwhile on. The only good classes poison will affect, unless they have green pots, is snipers and wizards.

A good scholar, hell even a mediocre scholar will have oranges or grapes on him because they will be overweight. Meaning if they fail a siphon, they need to pop one to be able to indulge/exhale. No one relies on regening that sp back, unless they are just dicking around in pvp not being serious. Not to many any serious woe scholar has 90+ vit to where poison won't matter on them.

For 1 skill point, VD is fairly useful, but nowhere near as godly as you make it out to be.

As for the Masteries, how often are you ever goin to be taking off your cranial to break an emp?

[Wingates]

Even then, EVERY sinx does not need RHM5. SD sinxs are not likely to ever equip 2 daggers, so there is no need for them to have the skill. RHM, as well as LHM, is needed for the sinxs that level up using 2 daggers. Sinxs using katars or skills(such as SD) may not need it at all.

?

[Feint]

?

Depends on how many speed pots you burn, I have 3 cloak and surely, its slow but I
never actually think i should have lv10 unless I ran out of speed pots.
Get 5RHM on any sin is a must.

.

[goblin~]

cloaking 10 is essential to any sinx ... walk speed is one of the highest advantages you cna have in this game. Its very much the same principle in real life, faster walk = beter mobility. Your whole killing efficiency is dependant on how fast u can catch up to enemies. The difference between cloaking 3 and 10, is the fact your enemy can actually get away very very easily... and it dosent matter what skills you have if they have successfully ran from you. Cloaking 10 is the one basic fundamental skills all sins and sinxs need to inorder to be successful... very much like heal is to a priest.
Although I have RHM 5, i know once i move to iris i will no longer be breaking emps cranial-less. Truth be told, in a well guarded castle you will die if u take off cranial when attacking the emp... but on sakray where castles are empty (even in the last minutes of woe) it is an exception.

[jminus]

if u are thinking of getting MA, either get lvl 1 or 10, don't get any thing inbetween.
in my opinion, i'll get lvl 1 for aoe disruption, or lvl10 for aoe disruption and the status effects, and dmg!

lol.. great way to hijack the thread guys!

i support getting lvl 1 VD, its a good way to pick out your targets, and estimate their vits, and determine which off hand weapon to sd with( 4xdill weap or icepick). i don't really care about the poison chunking off lil bit of hp constantly, nor if it stops your regens, caz ppl pot. also the -25%def is not bad either for those not using icepick or ck.

cloak 10... man as much as i wish i want it, theres just too many other skills to invest before maxing it! i currently have lvl 3, and i might get it to lvl 9, or lvl 4 and have lvl 5 GT by jlvl 70.

LHM is pretty bad for a sinx imo, caz like i said b4, theres too many other good skills to get. 5 skill points for the extra 500ish triple slash dmg isn't worth it.
RHM is ... alright, but only to DD sinx. i would say get it if u plan to melee in pvm for any reason and if u have agi. if no agi, and all SD, u got 5 extra skill point there! and since theres no agi, u can for get about GT, and save another 5 skill points.. and guess what! u have 10 skill points for MA lol!

[Draconis]

You need RHM 3 as a prerequisite to MA, we already discussed that.

[Thyrial]

Ya MA is just plain awesome... I kinda regret leaving it for last on my current Sin X but at leats it gives me a reason to actually get it to job 70 lol

[Nails]

huh? off topic but cloak 10 is great. And...why wouldn't every sinx get RHM 5? 2 job points after MA and any build with 120str can break an emp in under 10seconds. I see no reason to give that up.

[Feint]

huh? off topic but cloak 10 is great. And...why wouldn't every sinx get RHM 5? 2 job points after MA and any build with 120str can break an emp in under 10seconds. I see no reason to give that up.

How often do you actually equip 2 daggers at the Emp?

[Zagi]

Always ? :p

[Feint]

Always ? :p

Server: fRO Chaos

*cough*


Ok, let me change the question a bit. How often do you equip 2 daggers at an Emperium that is defended by a guild or an alliance?

[Aiofe]

OP here. Ok well it looks like (as usual) the topic changed halfway through the thread, but i guess i want some things cleared up now.

Is it safe to say if i want to level my character DD i should get the masteries, then reset and ditch them later for woeing and blah blah?

And whats the difference with GT and not having katar mastery maxed vs. if it was? I like GT because you can EDP with it unlike MA, but it never occurred to me that it would still be effective without the katar crap maxed.
(edit: and yes i can throw it in a calc, but i was more interested in GT vs. players)

Man, this is why i remember having such a hard time deciding skills on my old sinx. lol.

[Feint]

Katar Mastery(the assassin skill) is probably the worst skill in game. It's not worth the skillpoints for a sinx, assassins only get it for the damage boost as they have nothing better anyway. Advanced Katar Mastery, however, is really important and you're going to want it maxed for all sinxs.

If you're going for DD, you'll want at least RHM maxed. LHM is not that good, but I myself would still get it. Since skill resets are available on iRO, and you seem to be willing to make use of them, you might as well max both masteries for the damage boost and level up until you're ready to reset for a more WoE-based build.

[Zagi]

Server: fRO Chaos

*cough*


Ok, let me change the question a bit. How often do you equip 2 daggers at an Emperium that is defended by a guild or an alliance?

Beside you're a troll, you are off topic :D

Back to the topic, GT is better than MA in pvm.
GT can do better damage than MA when stacked with edp but like some one said it having "EDP !!" at the top of your head with no cranial and around the wiz line may not be the better idea.
GT is good for leveling at juperos or biolab though, so i'm happy that i get it but i will definitely reset for MA 10 when 99.
Cloaking 10 is a must have imo.

[Nails]

@ Reina, i use it quite often actually. I try to stand 'in' the emp so i'm harder to target, and try to break it before folks can target me. Also, the main skill that kills my sinx in WoE is GF which I have yet to take even with my cranial on (at 12k hp).

What could be worth more then this option?

[Feint]

GT is good for leveling at juperos or biolab though

They're both nerfed on most officials. The Dimiks and 5 minutes spawn time ruined Juperos, and Biolabs has had demon race monsters ever since...11.1 Rachel, I think? Grimtooth is still awesome, but currently, there are no good maps that allow assassins to pull higher EXP/h rates than ID3 offers.


I don't know about iRO WoEs, but at least on euRO, I would not sacrifice my Cranial Valkyrja's Shield for a second dagger. Most of the time there's so much crap cast on you and the Emperium that you don't want to take 30% more damage by everything. Position lagging yourself on the Emperium helps a lot, but that's often not really possible, and even then, it takes a well-placed Acid Bomb or two and you're as good as dead. Not to forget the Emperium is usually Safety Walled(Magnetic Earth helps, as well as the people attacking you if you're standing on the Emperium, but still.) and the extra damage you would be dealing if you ever hit the Emperium isn't much of an improvement to your Emperium breaking time.

[Nails]

what are you spending those 2 points on?

[Feint]

what are you spending those 2 points on?


http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/h...sXyswNmnbxGSJy (http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/%7Efk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20GXsXyswNmnbxGSJy)

That would be my sinx's job70 skillbuild.

abcd

[Wingates]

.

you wrote EVERY sinx does not need RHM5


I don't know about iRO WoEs, but at least on euRO, I would not sacrifice my Cranial Valkyrja's Shield for a second dagger. Most of the time there's so much crap cast on you and the Emperium that you don't want to take 30% more damage by everything. Position lagging yourself on the Emperium helps a lot, but that's often not really possible, and even then, it takes a well-placed Acid Bomb or two and you're as good as dead. Not to forget the Emperium is usually Safety Walled(Magnetic Earth helps, as well as the people attacking you if you're standing on the Emperium, but still.) and the extra damage you would be dealing if you ever hit the Emperium isn't much of an improvement to your Emperium breaking time.
True, only 1 second difference in my build and current equip.

[Feint]

you wrote EVERY sinx does not need RHM5

I did. And are you going to prove me wrong or just re-write everything I said with the huge, red font?

[Nails]

ah i missed that link. Neat way to fit GT in. All this debate boils down to is what do you find more valuable. Cloak 10 + possible duel weilding for emp breaks or Cloak 7 and GT. The answer will be unique to each, for me I love breaking emp so i choose the first.

[Sho Lin]

To the person that said every sinX doesn't need 5lhm:

What about us DD sins? What am I going to get in change of level 5lhm? level 6SD? The skill build I posted for SD and DD sins are perfect.

[Wingates]

I did. And are you going to prove me wrong or just re-write everything I said with the huge, red font?

you prefer pink?

@sho
Your skill build is good, but people have preferences.

[Sho Lin]

Can't really think where else you could put your skills

for the DD build you could get venom dust and poison react or something

for the SD build that's hard to move anything around if you want SD and MA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Reina is trying to say is do something like me and say why it's good to have.

[Wingates]

*edit i forgot to read that it's perfect if you get 10MA.

As for ddsin, i don't have more room for lhm because I get all attacking skills.

[WK]

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20GXsXIcwNmnbxGSJy

Feint's build slightly tweaked. =)

[Aiofe]

This is my own skill plan for sinx. Cloaking isn't 10 becuase i guess with the way i play i don't feel it is imperative. I decided to skip the DD stuff so all the masteries are junk.


high theif:
improve dodge 10
double attack 10
envenom 10
detox 1
hiding 10
steal 8

sinx:
katar mastery 7
advanced katar mastery 5
enchant poison 6
soul destroyer 10
meteor assault 10
sonic blow 10
right hand mastery 3
grimtooth 5
cloaking 7
create deadly poison 1
enchant deadly poison 5

[Wingates]

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/asc.html?20GXsXIcwNmnbxGSJy

Feint's build slightly tweaked. =)

melee grimm? ^^

[margafred]

If you're not a Dual Dagger build (Katar or 1h dagger + shield) and not even using MA - don't even bother investing RHM/LHM

If you're a Dual Dagger build - Max both RHM and LHM
*It should be noted that LHM doesn't increase the damage of left hand that much if you're using normal carded low ATK dagger (such as Main Gauche) on your left hand,and it doesn't contribute much to the damage per second.But if you're using Ice Pick on left hand,then max LHM.
*RHM only affect your Right Hand damage IF you're using 2 hand dagger style.1h dagger + shield won't be affected by the damage reduction.Also it doesn't affect damage from skills such as Soul Destroyer and Meteor Assault.It only affect your normal melee damage (ctrl+click)
*If me,if you're going for dual hand,then best to just max both masteries...
*SD/pure MA/Pure SB/No AGI build can dump both masteries...period.

Non AGI build/skill users (like Soul Destroyer build) doesn't need to up RHM/LHM...just stick to 1h dagger + shield style for breaking emp/leveling.