Author Topic: Spell Fist questions and discussion  (Read 13726 times)

Offline Sygil81

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Spell Fist questions and discussion
« on: April 15, 2011, 03:45:52 PM »
I'm currently a 94/60 scholar, getting closer to sorc.  I'm running a melee/hybrid build and I am looking forward to spell fist.  I know I'm crazy, but I'm requesting some information on it since anything I find seems pretty scarce, vague or out of date.

1.)  Does spell fist add to your melee attack or does it replace it? (i.e. when you hit, do you get a normal attack hit and then a spell fist hit or is it all rolled into one number?)

2.)  If it's considered a regular melee attack, can it crit?  Do endows enhance it?

3.)  Does it carry the element property?  I know imp/siroma cards affect it, but do elemental weaknesses?

4.)  Can it miss if your attack misses, or will it land like a spell kind of like hindsight?

5.) Those class balance notes suggested a formula change.  Anyone have any clue on this?  I know spell fist is low on the testing totem pole, but it'd be nice to know ahead of time.  Is this even something iRO should worry about in the first place or is it going to be one of those things that will be years down the road?

Reason I'm asking is this:

My current build is a high agi/int build with some str backup.  However, I'm looking into either dex or LUK to help land my attacks.  I know I don't need to land the attack for hindsight, but I'm playing more as a hybrid with a decent chunk of str.

If spell fist can crit, I think LUK would make way more sense on a melee build.  If spell fist can miss due to a missed melee attack, I think dex might be a better option since it will aid caster mode.

Dex:
+ Helps casting time when switch to caster mode (p.wave, diamond dust)
+ provides more HIT per point

LUK:
+ Gives a modest amount of MATK
+ still increases hit, but at a slower rate
+ gives critical, helping alleviate the need to pump dex for hit
+ gives perfect dodge, means more survivability in melee

- Does not improve casting time, so AOEs will be painful to try to get out.

Offline sillbrink

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 10:35:11 PM »
1) Spell fist replaces your normal attack.
 
2) It is a special magic based melee attack. Crit and endows do nothing (it is the element that you cast it as). Double Attack does work.
 
4) It always hits.
 
Seems your a bit confused on how spell fist works.
You cast a lvl 10 bolt and cancel it via spell fist.
For the next 6 attacks your melee damage will be equal to that of a level 15 bolt.
 
So the damage you do is exactly the same if you had somehow casted a level 15 bolt on that monster. Other spells like hindsight still function normally off of your attacks.
 
5) Who knows. If anything I would assume it was a buff of some sort. Im sure some info will surface soon about the kro patch.
 
As for stats, lol you get so many friggin points its not even funny. Its something like you can get around 100 points in 4 stats by level 150.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 10:36:47 PM by sillbrink »

Offline Golden Fingers

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 11:33:40 PM »
for stats, if you want a balanced build using hindsight/spellfist i'd just suggest 100 agi/vit/dex/int as a starting point. Might want to take away from agi/vit/dex to get 110-120 int if you plan to use PW (recommended).
 
In terms of changes to spellfist, the "cast while bolt casting" mechanic is very fiddly/annoying to use. I would LOVE it if they changed it to be similar to TK skill mild wind, where you simply cast lvl X of skill to select which element you want rather than the current mechanic. I'm praying thats what it is, but developers have a habit of trying to cling to bad ideas they thing are 'cool' or 'inovative'.
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Offline Steax

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 11:50:08 PM »
So why do people say spellfist is terrible?

Say, I get hit on my sura with pwave for 5k a wave. Pwave has a roughly 1200% modifier at 150int, and a level 15 bolt is therefore 1500%, at least 6k... And I can use imp/siroma cards to boost that up to 9k. If I manage to land all 6 hits in a few seconds then it's 50k+ damage in pvp. It's probably terribly inefficient but it sounds like a nice thing to have while you're under the delay of other skills (kind of like the RG PPA+EB combo). Is there a reason people say it's so bad?

Also, can you use a forced cast (shift+click) to do the initial bolt cast?
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Offline Nretep

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 06:30:56 AM »
There's quite a difference in a 1500% MAtk hit and 15*100% MAtk hits.

- Range
- Preparation
- Blockability
- Reflect
- AoE
- Neutral element vs Fire (on a server with DBreath)
- Preskills
- Usability (you can't use anything when SF is activated)

Before the latest kRO balancing (this week), the skill was just a fun char skill. The balancing testing haven't reached SF yet.

Offline Golden Fingers

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 11:12:17 PM »
I have no problem with the damage, I think its quite good. being able to do 1500*6=9000% damage over a second to a single target rocks. What I dont like is the mechanic behind it.
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Offline Sura

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 03:03:37 AM »
Quote from: Nretep;1066523
- Usability (you can't use anything when SF is activated)

So...mean even a battle soc will not consider this skill?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 04:18:19 AM by Sura »

Offline Nretep

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 04:21:31 AM »
Quote from: Sura;1072196
Quote from: Nretep;1066523

- Usability (you can't use anything when SF is activated)


So...mean even a battle soc will not consider this skill?
SF stacks with double attack
SF stacks with hindsight
doubleattack does not stack with hindsight (?)

Using a skill (starting) while SF has been activated, deactivates SF.

You can use it, but you need to prepare every 6 hits. It's a fun skill.

Offline Sura

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 06:05:06 AM »
Quote from: Nretep;1072208
Quote from: Sura;1072196
Quote from: Nretep;1066523

- Usability (you can't use anything when SF is activated)


So...mean even a battle soc will not consider this skill?
SF stacks with double attack
SF stacks with hindsight
doubleattack does not stack with hindsight (?)

Using a skill (starting) while SF has been activated, deactivates SF.

You can use it, but you need to prepare every 6 hits. It's a fun skill.


OH!!! so SF will cancel once cast any skill while SF is active. That seems ok...i taught once cast SF, you have to hit something at least 6 times to cast other skill... :lol:

The double hit, example with SF hit 3000dmg, double hit will also do 3000dmg? So instead of 6 SF hit, it become 7hits?

Offline Barigas

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 09:18:19 AM »
Double hit will hit 3000*2=6000 dmg.

Offline Sura

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 06:26:01 PM »
Is there any eq or card that gives high chances of double hit? It will be good for SF :p

Offline sillbrink

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 09:43:26 PM »
Snake Hat - lvl 5 Double Attack
Chick Hat - lvl 2 Double Attack
Sidewinder Card - lvl 1 Double Attack
 
I used the snake hat for about umm 2 times and I put it back in storage. When it takes 3 hits to kill a monster, having a double attack going off its pretty much useless. I could see it being better if it took 2 hits (thus double attack would one-shot the monster).
 
Question:
Did anybody else notice that when a double attack goes off when you are doing over ~21k (42k with the double attack), that the damage doesnt show up on the screen or in the damage tab. I find it to be annoying (was hoping to see 50k double attacks going off :p )

Offline Sura

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 10:36:53 PM »
:eek: you doing 21k per fist? i taught the dmg just roughly 6-7k base on its formula...

How much dmg averagely can SF do to a player? especially in woe...

Offline sillbrink

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2011, 02:56:52 PM »
Earth4 monster + 2x Imps + Kronos (and various +int stuff) +105base int. I could see me doing easily 30k a hit with summon / insignia, but its not usually worth the setup / cost.
 
I dunno about damage in WoE, but from what I heard mgdef really kills spells fists damage because it takes it off of the base bolt damage and then multiplies the modifier (not to mention that just by getting base levels you can increase your resistance to magic).

Offline Sura

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Re: Spell Fist questions and discussion
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2011, 05:50:16 PM »
Quote from: sillbrink;1073151

 
I dunno about damage in WoE, but from what I heard mgdef really kills spells fists damage because it takes it off of the base bolt damage and then multiplies the modifier (not to mention that just by getting base levels you can increase your resistance to magic).


:( what you said is true...it is making SF a pvm rather than a woe / pvp skill.. if bolts damage reduce significantly on players, it has very big impact on bolts, hindsight, SF...the main thing is.. IT DRAG DOWN SOLDIER BUILD FOR WOE/PVP!!!!!!

Bolt spell's damage formula haven't change after renewal, which is MATK * 1... the damage i think is more lower than preRE because back in time MATK without godly gear should able to hit up to 600++, 700++....but now the MATK just seems like being lowered to 500++, 600++ (with chronos), before you can get a chronos, your MATK even lower...so the bolt damage significantly drop a lot while everyone's HP increase so a lot! Lets say you can do a 10k damage on a naked player in pvp, in woe + reduction gear, its damage just roughly 3k... 3k againts 40k hp... 2 pots / 1 heal to cover back the damage? (i bet how to drop a 10k bolts damage on lunatic will be an issue as well :facepalm:)

It might be slightly better if that is a caster sorc, with double bolts, web, the damage can do slightly higher.

What i trying to express my taught here is that i feels like sorc is not design for melee anymore....