Author Topic: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition  (Read 36584 times)

Offline coren

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #270 on: March 24, 2014, 01:18:11 PM »
Quote from: wikilapoop;1391990
99/70 LK here with clean stats and skills.  Just reset them when i turned 99. anyways just wondering what build is  the best for PURE MVP and what gears should i get. And for mvp hunting  which one is better. BB or Berserk? i hear pierce is good too. Im  thinking to make a zerk LK with TGK and just auto attack but unsure if  its better that the other options.

Thanks in advance :)

Pure MVP?  Really LK, regardless of build, is all about equipment,  unlike say Snipers, Biochemists, and Champs, who can get away with  minimalist equipment and still MVP effectively.  Or even HP's with their  survivability regardless of equipment.

Edit Note *IMPORTANT*: RO, with the  introduction of Transcendence, changed MVPs drastically.  I mean it's  painful at times due to the added in Power Up skills.  Prior to this  point, a Spear Knight need only a +10 Pike with a Phree card and any %  card combination to literally OWN every MVP in the game solo, with  anywhere from 50 to 400 Whites depending on the MVP and luck (assuming  50 armor/hard defense, and maybe 5-15 hard mdef).  Given the power ups  there's really a limited time window to finish them off FAST, or have a  skill that ignores flee (or substantial crit).  Another issue is Crit  was reduced wholesale thanks to the Crit Shield implementation, which  pretty much destroyed Knight Crit builds with high level normal mobs and  MvP's especially (really painful in Biolabs knowing your 40% crit  rating is like 6% against SinX Eremes).  So this means a Crit build  without a Muramasa is harder to pull off, even with the Morrigane set  (since it requires both accessory slots, really cutting into other  options, like abusing the awesome Owl Baron Card, or if you happen to  have Meg's).

For these reasons the above three classes are designated the MVP  classes, as they are still viable soloing any MVP.  To a lesser extent a  really good High Wizard can, but you need great timing, a lot of  practice, and good knowledge of the maps and certain "trap spots" like a  certain staircase in Bio3.

MVP's you can never solo, no matter the build, no matter how many Slim  Whites, no matter the equipment, simply due to their HP, regen rates,  damage output, % chance to trigger their Power Up skills, and  EQ/Judgement trigger chances and damage output:

Beelzebub,
Morroc,
Ifrit (this is a MAYBE, since I've seen it done solo on an LK, but very unlikely),
Margaretha,
Kathryn (maybe, depends on her Safety Walls and if you can drag her out of them),
Howard (he can one-shot a 100k HP Frenzy, and is doable but not worth the effort),
Cecil (stay away, stay very far away, but if some miracle nets you up close while still fully buffed?  It's doable),
Randgris (another very big maybe.  While Valkyries can be taken out solo with the right equipment, this won't happen).

Pretty much everything introduced since Trans should be partied for.   Just realize unless you have something crazy, like a Randgris + Thanatos  carded weapon, MVP in a party is very unlikely, but I have seen it,  even against well geared Snipers, Sura's, and Biochems.


FRENZY

I have not played much of Classic, but if Frenzy is based on pre-renewal  rules, then you can stack 1h Quicken (Soul Link, and applies to 1h  Swords and Daggers), and 2h Quicken with Frenzy.  With enough Dex, and  maybe some AGI, you can get like 70 Dex, 1 AGI and probably hit 190 Aspd  (easier with 1h, but again, requires soul link).

If this holds true, the following weapons are the optimal MVP weapons (in order of usefulness):
1) Tae Goo Lyeon (+10 PD, 250 base, 2s, level 4, +50 atk @.01% if job 70)
2) Violet Fear (275 base, 2s, level 4, Frost Nova 5 @5% for mob control)
3) Death Guidance  (200 base, 2s, level 4, Vampire's Gift heals Frenzy mode so +9 that for  level 2 and 200% aoe that will instantly return you to 100% HP in  FRENZY!, just note the negative of Hell Power really holds this back and  the lower base damage)
4) Krasnaya (200 base, 3s, level 2, +20atk if base Strength is 96+.  I overlooked this like a fool, so thanks to Wyort for pointing this sword out.  Granted, in an ideal scenario, this is less effective than the above three for a Frenzy build due to having no other bonuses, and being level 2, HOWEVER, having a third slot, being easy to find, usually cheaper, thus easier to upgrade, and having a high base attack of 200, it is quite a useful weapon, and is arguably better than the Muramasa in critical builds, but can be equally useful for Dex builds...personally I think this weapon would be more effective as either Crit, or in a Bowling Bash build).
5) Muramasa  (155 base, level 4, +30 Crit, +8% Aspd.  Easiest to make for a critical  build, and given Frenzy mechanics, you can get 99 base Luck to avoid  the Curse status while still having decent Str and Vit, and the  additional atk speed helps in ensuring a lower dex/agi count for max  aspd under Frenzy)
6) There's always the oldschool 4s Katana  +10 (must be +10 or bust), which if you can hit 130-140 str, IS quite  effective at dealing damage, and might outstrip in some instances, with  elemental buffs, and very specific card setups (like AKx3 and  Race/Elementx1 for 2.1x modifier which is slightly better but definitely  adds up at that strength, or AKx2 Racex1 Elementx1 for 2.16x, the  highest possible modifier, unless you have Turtle General cards ;), but I don't know if anyone even has one in Classic, and I doubt there would be near enough for an open market)

Why is Muramasa number 4?  Clearly it's due to the forced 99 base luck  to avoid Curse.  Otherwise it would be number 2, and I only say this  because some people swear by the Muramasa in pre-renewal.

Why is the Katana [4] +10 number 5, when classical mechanics would tend  to favour level 1 weapons with 4 slots at high base attack stats?   Simple, the high card slots of some of the really high attack value  weapons actually makes a massive impact, and unless you have insane  strength values, the newer weapons simply outstrip, plus there's the  element of critical rates, which Katana's cannot truly pull off as  effectively given the best way to work them is maximizing % damage  output, while the other weapons allow for less str, and more natural  crit rates as a helpful hand, while still outputting respectable damage.


Just in case, useful 1h Swords:

1) Red Twin Edge of Naught Sieger  (3s, level 4, base 160, and definitely provides the highest 1h sword  output, and against enemies strong versus fire, you can always override  with Sage buff, Priest, Cursed Water, or Sage Scrolls).
2) Blue Twin Edge of Naught Sieger (3s, level 4, base 150, Frost Nova is useless here in a Frenzy build since it won't auto-cast)
3) Elemental Sword  (3s, level 3, base 105, autobolt which can be useful in Frenzy for a  kind of psuedo stun lock, but that was in private servers, I don't know  how well this will translate to iRO Classic - anyone who can  confirm/deny this please step forward)
4) Ye olde Blade [4] and Saber [3]!   These are more practical in that they'll be easier to find, and get to  +10 (an absolute MUST, as the others above can suffice at +7).  Saber  is thankfully the best option of these three, thanks to the 3s version,  and should be relatively cheap and easy to find at +7/9, and hopefully  10.  To my memory, Saber should be the better on this, especially at  +10, despite having 3s versus 4, even at very high str (140+), but it  should even out around that point.
5) Byeollungum  (obvious +50% versus boss, level 4, base 150, all  stats  +2, clearly a  good universal MVP sword, but these are old RO mechanics, not renewal,  and while it has an automatic +50%, the above will outstrip this for  damage due to the card slots, and in Elemental Sword's case, the  auto-bolts may be quite useful, but hopefully someone who has this sword  can step in and confirm/deny this).

Crit Armor options
 Top: Morrigane's Helm
 Mid: Robo Eye or S.Sunnies [Deviruchi, but just for the strength, since  Crit is not affected by Blind and Flee is worthless in Frenzy, and a third card option is Vanberk, which is usually more expensive than the Deviruchi, but adds another Str point for +2 Str, and has a .5% chance to trigger +100 Crit, which can help bypass Crit Shield, this assumes it will trigger in Frenzy in Classic, of which I'm unsure of but it SHOULD trigger]
 Lower: Pirate Dagger
 Body: Valkyrian/Armor of Naga [PecoPeco if above 70 Vit, Porcellio of below], Glorious Suit  [that +20% HP can  actually go a long way, great option if Vit is 60+,  also excellent  option for Death Guidance since it will grant more HP to  heal back up  and prevent wipes, and sadly DG is the only way to heal  frenzy]
NOTE: If you can afford it, Tao card is the  optimal body armour card for Frenzy, even at 1 Vit.  If you can get  ahold of a Brynhild, that's probably better due to the attack boost.   These two are optimal and VERY unlikely.
 Robe: Morrigane's Manteau
 Feet: Variant or +9 Diabolus Boots [Firelock Card]
 Accessories: Morrigane's Belt / Morrigane's Pendant

Shield (1h, which is a little crazy, but why not): Valkyrja + Alice Card

Dex Armor options
Top: Snake Head [Deviruchi or Seyren Windsor with +9/10, EDIT: and another option is going Vanberk for the 100% crit rate @.5% which for 5s can make a huge impact of an additional 10-80% damage depending on the MvP, but only if lower is a Blinker/Dark Blinder]
Mid: Robo Eye [if Snake Head + Deviruchi] or Blinker/Dark Blinder, EDIT: I always forget about Vanberk: S.Sunnies/Glasses/Elvens/Blush [Vanberk] is often better than Robo Eye, though I'm not 100% sure if it'll trigger while in Frenzy in Classic, it SHOULD.  The only negative is the chance to trigger is relatively low.  Just note that Blind immunity is technically a must for a Dex build
Lower: Well-Chewed Pencil  [could go Pirate Dagger of one of the %  reduction/damage vs  Plants/Brute, but Hit trumps all of these, means  less Dex required to  be effective, more Str or Vit, priority to Str]
Body: Valkyrian/Naga [PecoPeco if above 70 Vit, Porcellio of  below], Glorious Suit  [that +20% HP can actually go a long way, great  option if Vit is 60+,  also excellent option for Death Guidance since it  will grant more HP to  heal back up and prevent wipes, and sadly DG is  the ONLY way to heal  frenzy]
NOTE: If you can afford it, Tao card is the  optimal body armour card for Frenzy, even at 1 Vit. Bryn of course is a  great best option alternative, but both should be considered extremely  unlikely.
Robe: Diabolus Manteau or Wool Scarf  [either Raydric/Deviling or if Str/Vit,  or Str/Luck are over 80, Giant  Whisper is a decent substitute)...since I  don't play Classic atm, I  have no idea how the Heroic Backpack was  introduced to the server or  what its bonuses are, but it might be a  great alternative, just note  the +HP from Diabolus Mant + Boots is very  useful.
Feet: Diabolus Boots or Tidal Shoes [+9 and a Firelock, except no substitutes], another option is Shackles
Accessories: IF Shackles, must go Bloodied Shackle Ball.  Otherwise Medal of Honor is VERY useful, mostly for the added hit, so less dex,  more str.  Ring of the Flame Lord  is quite useful here too. 2x Medal of  Honor will suffice though, but  another alternative, if going for more  Str tiers, is the old Ring [Mantis Card] combo (heck, could go with 2 of  these, reduce str if necessary and over a 10 marker to get more  dex/vit)

Shield (1h Swords only): Valkyrja [Alice Card]


A good general frenzy build's range is something like:
Str 70-120
Agi 1-20
Vit 40-100 <--ya it can range this much depending on gear, damage output, crit rate, and desired HP
Int 1-12 <--most get 1, but 12 will net you a 7sp tick, which helps in leveling and in using alternative skills
Dex 20-70 <--all depends on whether you want a crit or a dex-based build
Luck 1-99 <--again, all depends on crit or dex based build


Muramasa Ranges:
Str 70-100
Agi 1-5 <---over 1 if desiring more Str/Vit and don't care for dex
Vit 60-80
Int 1-7 <---extra points
Dex 1-22 <---if having less Str/Vit is ok and prefer some extra Hit)
Luck 99


Standard Crit Ranges:
Str 70-110
Agi 5-13 <---same deal but this time 5 if you want 32 base dex for some extra hit
Vit 60-80
Int 1-7 <--point dumps if desired
Dex 1-32 <---if desiring some dex, get 32, and 5 Agi for 190 aspd, it's a good balance with reasonable hit
Luck 60-80


Dex Build Ranges:
Str 80-120
Agi 1 <--never touch Agi given Dex will allow going into the 190 range
Vit 60-80
Int 1-12
Dex 70-90 <--can get away with 70 due to +50 from Dynamo, but be  quick, both for the skill's short duration and inability to recast while  in frenzy...also should point out if any MVP goes into Power Up mode,  it's bad, so try to kill them before this, or spend some time away and  return.  This is not much of an issue with Crit based Frenzy builds.
Luck 1


Ice Pick [1] Ranges (The real question here is this will have to  be an AGI build to hit somewhere between 188 and 190 atk speed with +10  Food and Agi Up).
Str 70-100
Agi 70-90
Vit 20-50
Int 1
Dex 50-70 <--depends on whether you have any Hit boosting gear like Medal of Honor
Luck 1


Ice Pick Build Armor options
Everything is the same as the above for Dex builds, except the following extras.
Body: Dragon Vest/Pantie [1],  same card options (Dragon+Dragon is better, but it depends if the new  world is implemented yet, if not, Pantie + Undershirt is sufficient)
Robe: Dragon Manteau/Undershirt [1], same card options
Foot: Black Leather Boots [1], Firelock or Martyr Card, depending

The  point of the above options is to boost AGI as it is likely the highest  stat for this build for one of two reasons, 1)more Vit, and 2)aiming for  as close to 190 atk speed as possible (w/food + agi up).


Frenzy Must-Have Skills 2Hand:
-=Swordman=-
Increase HP Recovery 5 (prereq)
Provoke 5 (prereq)
Endure 1 (prereq)
Bash 5 (prereq)
Magnum Break 5 (prereq)
Sword Mastery 1 (prereq)
2H Mastery 10
Total (32 of 49, 17 left over)
Recommended Extras: Increase HP Recovery 10 (5, 12 left over)
Can get Sword Mastery 10 for versatility in 1 and 2h swords
-=Lord Knight=-
PecoPeco Ride 1 (prereq)
Spear Mastery 5 (prereq)
Spear Dynamo 5
Aura Blade 5
2H Quicken 10
Parry 10
Frenzy 1
Total (37 of 69, 32 left over)
Recommend Extras: Relax 1 (1, 31 left over, requires Increase HP Recovery 10)
Bowling Bash makes for the most effective leveling skill in some mobby maps like High Orcs.
Frenzy Must-Have Skills 1Hand/IcePick:
-=Swordman=-
Increase HP Recovery 5 (prereq)
 Provoke 5 (prereq)
 Endure 1 (prereq)
Bash 5 (prereq)
Magnum Break 5 (prereq)
2H Mastery 5 (prereq)
Sword Mastery 10
Total (36 of 49, 13 left over)
Recommended Extras: Increase HP Recovery 10 (5, 8 left over)
Note that 2H Mastery can also be maxed
-=Lord Knight=-
PecoPeco Ride 1 (prereq)
Spear Mastery 5 (prereq)
Spear Dynamo 5
Aura Blade 5
2H Quicken 10 (1 Hand Swords only, ignore if just Icepick)
Frenzy 1
Total 1h Swords (27 of 69, 42 left over)
Total Icepick (17 of 69, 52 left over)
Recommended Extras: Recommend Extras: Relax 1 (1, 1HS: 41 left over / IP: 51 left over, requires Increase HP Recovery 10) and Bowling Bash 10 (10 + 5 in Counter + 5(10) in Swordman for Bash for 8 or 3 left over in Swordman and 27 left over in a 1HS build, + 10 in 2H Quicken for 27 left over in an Icepick build)



BOWLING BASH
This is where things get kind of fun.  Bowling Bash builds are kind of a  hybrid Agi build.  They're very versatile builds where either it's  about going pure Sword (1+2h, and this would include daggers, ala Ice  Pick) OR picking EITHER 1 or 2h sword and Spears.

There are  serious drawbacks, one being the stat distribution favours AGI,  especially for non-2h Builds.  This is mostly a negative for high level  MVPs, and even some midrange like Baphomet and Dopple are difficult to  kill with BB.  The second and most glaring issue is the prerequisites  are VERY high, so this is mostly geared towards a sword build, not a  Spear (doable with Spear, but sacrifices in other areas like Endure make  things more difficult).

1Hand weaponry is often better, if only  due to the Shield.  Just realize that even Blacksmiths can outdamage an  LK this route, and Whitesmiths can totally destroy BB with their boosts  and Mammo, or just High Speed Cart Ram, given they're more spammable  skills.  BB's biggest problem is, even at 190, the animation really  kills this as a truly useful MVP skill (unlike Pierce, which, at least  in the original iRO, could be stacked with the next Pierce cast  mid-animation so long as the ASPD delay allowed for a next cast).  BB  used to be very spammable, but that changed with some nerfs.

I'll cover in more specifics later on.

SPEAR BUILDS
Spear builds and their dynamics.  There are two ways of looking at  spears, one is a pure CS build, then there's the more traditional spear  route, where CS is just a bonus skill for PVP/WoE and certainly 1-2 shot  situations in PvM, where the main two skills are Pierce and/or Bowling  Bash...shoot have to get going, I'll return for more edits.

There are two main builds to break down.  One is a pure CS, the other is a pure Spear, of which there are two types: SVD (in original RO, as a Knight it was either Vit or SVD, but the extra points for trans allow for extra Str and Dex, so a pure Vit is within SVD stat ranges), OR Agi Spear (the least effective spear MVP but my personal favourite to play because it's quite fun).

Regardless of build, this is about Defense and survival more than anything else, and armour options change a lot depending on the required and desired Element.  Sure slotted elemental armours are a good way to go, but I prefer Valkyrian for extra stats and a higher base Def.  The basic problem being MVP's love to break armour.  Not Shields, not Shoes, not Hats, sometimes weapons, but always armour, they LOVE breaking Armour.  So Valkyrian is a must, save for instances of weak MvP's where higher defense armours like Meteor Plate and Life Link are better for their pure defensive options.  Another route some people like is going for MDef, which is very useful against MvP's like Dark Lord, where instead of even Valkyrian, it's about Silk Robe + Pasana Card.  I'll cover different armours in a more proper list.  The nice thing though is all spear options use roughly the same armour (with the sole exception of CS tactics, which is about cutting down on delay and cast time, and going for maximum dps).

The different builds:

Clashing Spiral!  It ignores actual attack and goes entirely by its own formula:  [(weaponweight*0.8*skillmod)+strbonus+weaponupgrades]*damagemodifiers*5  
What does this mean?  Weapon Weight is the largest modifier for damage.
A few things to note:
1) ONLY % damage increases add extra damage, +Atk cards add nothing, same with Atk boosting gear like Bloodied Shackle Ball + Shackle.
2) Aura Blade and Spear Dynamo do NOT add damage to this skill.  HOWEVER, Spear Dynamo is still a requirement for the hit bonus and endure effect in instance of heavy mobbing.
3) Element property buffs affect damage, and while I'm not 100% sure about iRO Classic, it SHOULD make CS an actual element and thus capable of hitting Ghost property.

Pure CS builds are very difficult because they're only one-target based, and exclusively built around CS.  With modern iRO skills can be reset, as can stats, so leveling with Str early on then switching to a new stat build after obtaining level 5 CS is possible.  Old school iRO this was not possible, and leveling up to CS was a nightmare of epic proportions without really good gear.  Pure CS builds cannot properly utilize ANY other skill for damage (probably one reason for Gravity's design of the RK and Dragon Breath mechanics), so the rest of their design is utility.  Hybridization is recommended for versatility, either going BB+CS or full spear with CS (In this case it's an SVD Spear build where CS is preferred over Pierce for higher DPS with Magic Strings).

CS Weapons, 1H Spears (preferred over 2H for MvP and usually in PvM):
1) Hunting Spear [1, discuss below] (Heaviest 1h Spear at 420, the highest base attack 1h Spear, ignores beast defense, has a chance to auto-cast Vital Strike, also level 4)
2) Pole Axe [1, discuss below] (Second heaviest 1h Spear at 380, sadly it's a level 3 weapon, base attack 160, +2 Int, +1 Str/Dex)

CS Weapons, 2H Spears (offers highest overall damage, and situational damage):
1) Cardo [1, discuss below] (Heaviest spear in Classic at 560, offers defense at 1 per 2 refines for a max +5, level 4 and attack 150, all around the highest overall damage for CS)
2) Hellfire (Fourth heaviest spear, second heaviest 2H Spear at 350, base attack 200, Fire Property which is useful for hunting Peach Trees with CS since it's an easy one-shot without need for any buffs, this is both a good tactic for leveling and a good tactic for farming Royal Jelly, which is useful for healing in skill builds versus MVPs).
3) Brionac (Fifth heaviest spear at 300, base attack 190, enables usage of Heal level 5, Holy Property is useful for hunting solo against any dark property with CS, such as Abysmal Knights and Raydrics)


Clashing Spiral Must-Have Skills:
-=Swordman=-
-=Lord Knight=-
Spear (SVD/AGI) Must-Have Skills:
-=Swordman=-
-=Lord Knight=-


HYBRIDS
Basically take any of the above, and mix and match to make something  that fits your desire, while going for very roundabout stats.  Very much  like a utilitarian WOE build.  Three ways of looking at it though, a  prolonged battle with some skill spamability due to AGI and using skills  based on AGI, going for a Clashing Spiral build with Strength, and more  potions on hand, or going for as high a str value as possible, but very  limited in other stats.  Usually the idea is something like the  following:

Agi hybrid
Str 60-80
Agi 30-60
Vit 50-80
Int 1-12
Dex 50-70
Luck 1

CS hybrid
Str 30-80
Agi 1
Vit 60-80
Int 1-12
Dex 80-90
Luck 1

Strength hybrid
Str 100-120
Agi 1-60
Vit 30-60
Int 1-12
Dex 40-70
Luck 1

AXE
Yes,  Axes.  I'll only give this a passing mention, but it SHOULD be  mentioned.  Axe's, while FAR more viable in Renewal, still have a place  as Lord Knight weapons.  Hurricane Fury [1] can, if upgraded to +7 or  higher, be a reasonable alternative with AR Scrolls, as a Frenzy weapon  or even a Bowling Bash weapon.  With very high Strength, an Orcish Axe  [4] CAN output amazing damage, just due to the 75 base attack, at +9/10,  and makes for a very solid Bowling Bash weapon with an AR Scroll.

Another  great bonus about Axe's is that they're indestructible.  However,  against Small and Medium size, their damage modifier can become a  problem.

I should also note that with the implementation of some  of the really awesome 3slot 1h Swords and 2slot 2h Swords @weapon level 4  and high base attack values, Axes are kind of outclassed on an LK with  the right cards in them.

While not an Axe, and kind of a ridiculous weapon to mention given rarity and likelihood of ever obtaining one, the Mjolnir is pretty insane, despite having no card slots, just due to the stat boosts and being one handed.  Just mentioning it for kicks.  Never experienced using one before renewal, so I don't know how it would fit amongst the above builds should this actually be obtained.


Ratings!

Realize  these are based on my personal experience only, and for many, most  would simply say SVD Spear or Clashing Spiral is the best option for MVP  (this is true in most cases).  Mostly due to survivability, with Frenzy  being a semi-viable option for easy MVPs.  Others might have their own  opinions somewhere between these two, and I know some players who swear  by Bowling Bash.

Lots of Zeny (we're talking like 5-20billion you can throw around and put into this):

1)Frenzy
2)SVD Spear (w/Phreeoni, some Agi for spammability)
3)Clashing Spiral Spear
4)Bowling Bash (1h Sword or Ice Pick)
5)Agi Spear
6)Bowling Bash (2h Sword)

With limited funds (just a rough judgment scanning over Ragial prices and rough guesses - 150m-1b depending on many factors from cards to upgrade levels to weapon/armour options, to market shifts/availability, to whether an armour has a hidden enchant, it's often better getting into a really good guild that's willing to support you in this by selling at low cost or giving away stuff, unless personal funds IRL allow enough kafra items to move up to 1+b equipment (+9/10 of certain top-tier weapons, multiple AK cards, MVP cards):

1)Clashing Spiral
2)SVD Spear
3)Agi Spear
4)Frenzy
5)Bowling Bash (any weapon)

I'm  ignoring hybrids and axe mentions because hybrid is more of a stat  concept taking maybe 2 different skill builds and combining with  slightly less standard stats.  Axes are more of a passing mention for  fun.


NOTE: still a lot more to be done...and yes, I am planning to finish this, but maybe I'll just take it down and repost it later in a separate thread as a pseudo-guide when I have more time.  Gotta go.


Quote from: adzheng02;1392118
Hello, I just wanted to know if there would be  an update to allow clashing spiral being able to wield by swords rather  than Spears only?

Given this was an addition added to Renewal, don't expect it.  Though  I'm sure if enough people demanded it, maybe...but that's a huge maybe.   I mean you'd have to get like half the server to demand it, or at least  keep attention running for it to push for it on the official boards,  like run polls and discussions over the merits of it (open a topic in  the suggestions forum if you have not done so already).

I'll pretty much prepare you right now: don't expect community support.   Even if you manage this, and actually get a sizable portion of the  Classic server to support this, you'd still have to sell it to the GM's  to want to push for it.  Then they have to get the aok, which likely  means get Gravity korea approval.

Not discouraging you, since it could happen, and why not as it would be  relatively fair given the sacrifices in spear skills to obtain it, and  the lack of any real offensive 2h skills for LK, especially ones that  allow for high damage without requiring any real str, allowing luck  based builds some extra versatility (even if it's not very spammable in  lieu of most 2HS builds).
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 08:50:20 AM by coren »

Offline whistleblower

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #271 on: April 03, 2014, 08:50:53 AM »
Ooh nice guide, taken from somewhere?

Offline coren

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #272 on: April 03, 2014, 11:38:17 AM »
Quote from: whistleblower;1393035
Ooh nice guide, taken from somewhere?


I haven't had time to finish it, but no, it's based on my experience and memory of playing RO since 2001.  I just happen to focus on knights and their updates, and I tend to write a lot when I do get into stuff like this, which is always a problem since I don't have even 1/10th the time I used to.

Offline Wyort

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #273 on: April 10, 2014, 05:39:51 AM »
Krasnaya is better than Katana (assuming you not using meg ofc :lol:)

Offline coren

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #274 on: April 10, 2014, 07:07:50 PM »
Quote from: Wyort;1393592
Krasnaya is better than Katana (assuming you not using meg ofc :lol:)

Ah, ya, see Krasnaya wasn't in the game last time I played pre-renewal, and the twin edges were only being discussed as they were in Korea.  So I'll change that then.  Thank you for that.

I really should've just checked a list of 2h Swords rather than go by memory and do individual db searches.


Added in, as the new number 4, ahead of a Muramasa.  Doing a little legwork, it seems like a more effective crit weapon for damage output, since afterall, in a Frenzy build Mura's +8% aspd is useless, three slots goes a long way, 200 base power, and being level 2 and easy enough to find, it should make for an easy +9/10 weapon.  I would still classify the Death Guidance (basically the only sword built exclusively with Frenzy in mind), Tae Goo Lyon, and the Violet Fear as overall superior weapons, but not by too much.  I'll have to make a note of bringing up the amount of damage possible with 3x sword guardian cards as a BB based weapon, and a hot contender, given Parry, with the two Twin Edges, especially since it's default neutral.

Anyway, again, thanks for pointing out the Krasnaya.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 07:45:16 PM by coren »

Offline Wyort

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #275 on: April 11, 2014, 02:58:02 AM »
Realistically you want Veteran Sword [Race/AK] for BB because the only way you beating this is TENS-Red [SG+SG+Race/AK]. Krasnaya in comparison with Veteran doesnt have so much damage difference but getting 2 SG card is way harder than getting Veteran Sword. In PvP 2HS Valor wont compete with Veteran because provoke and Glorious will outdamage anything since Glorious have omgwtf overupgrade bonus.

Offline coren

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #276 on: April 11, 2014, 08:50:38 AM »
Well I'd only be discussing MvP based weaponry, should put a section for Rachel/Biolabs and overupgraded Glorious.

Wow, I had no idea Veteran was pre-renewal.  That would definitely make sense.  Given it's weapon level 4, I would think Krasnaya would come in as perhaps the 4th best weapon overall after Veteran / Twin Red / Twin Blue if we're considering overupgrading just due to the level 4 damage bonus, and there aren't many SG's, and only good players can really take them on, so ya, very rare.  I'll have to make some time this weekend to get that section done then.

Somehow managed to overlook the Vanberk card, but popped that in.  I should have some time later for some more thorough editing of Frenzy and getting weapons and armour options up for BB (armour is pretty much the same as a Dex build), and maybe spear.

Personal Anti-Gravity Rant: Man, looking at spear updates from LK through to Renewal versus both 1H/2H swords...it's almost like they want to pigeon hole Knights into three builds: 2hQuicken, Bowling Bash with a Sword of some type, or Clashing Spiral.  No real spear love, which is kind of funny given Spears were the heaviest damage dealing weapons next to Axes, and before Swords prior to Trans.  I guess they felt a 3s Sword at 160atk and level 4 is somehow less powerful than, or moderately equal to a 1s Spear at 180atk and also level 4...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 09:09:21 AM by coren »

Offline RonSilver

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #277 on: June 05, 2014, 02:03:54 PM »
hey. i have almost 99ed my knight and im rethinking my lk build.
i want it for woe mostly. most woe lk builds i know of are bb bassed with 90~100 vit and max str, aimed to be a mix of tank and killers.
thing is i was thinking on a 110~120 vit and not spamming bb but brandish with statuses pikes istead. what do you experienced people think about it? would it be usefull or should i just stick to the tipical bb build and be boring like everyone else?
still can get clashing to try to kill a wiz or so but not my thing really.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 02:04:07 PM by RonSilver »

Offline coren

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #278 on: June 05, 2014, 02:52:17 PM »
Brandish spamming is actually pretty fun in WoE.  I've never done any Renewal WoE, and I'm not as big a fan of WoE in general, and while BB really IS the best skill for an LK in WoE, especially if you have a well co-ordinated team with a BB wall and backup HW/HP/Meastro with Sac-Pally's keeping the front alive, and some solid Scholar's and potion spamming Biochem's wrecking all sorts of havoc (while the biochem's help the Priests keep the front line alive with pot spams...usually best to have one biochem solely devoted to pot healing).

I'm not so sure how well those tactics would work on iRO though, but anyway, aside from a very well coordinated team; Brandish spamming with two pike sets, Curse + Freeze, is damn effective, especially when you can go with minimal strength and still do somewhat decent single-target damage inbetween, with CS, and aim for really solid HP to survive.  Alternate constantly between your various weapons and of course armor (have to have Water + Lightning protection...best to do Marc Water Armor + -30% lightning protection in your robe).

Anyway, ya, that works.

You can do a build similar to (base stats only):

Str 53
Agi 1
Vit 92
Int 17
Dex 89
Luck 2

Geared up with:

Spear (Pikes 2x [4x Magnolia, 4x Marina], Glorious +7/9/10, Hunting Spear +7/9/10)
Shield (Valkyrja [Thara])
Helm (Feather Beret +7/9/10, Blinker/S.Sunnies [some useful element resistance card], Well-Chewed Pencil)
Body (Valkyrian/Silk Robe/Life Link/Water Spirits Armor +7/9/10 [Marc], Glorious Suit +7/9/10)
Robe (Diabolus/Wool +7/9/10 [Raydric / Noxious / Marse / Dustiness])
Shoe (Diabolus/Tidal +9/10 [Firelock], Variant +0)
Accessory 1 (Glorious Ring)
Accessory 2 (Glorious Ring, Medal of Honor)

That simple...though you could actually have some fun with it and try for auto-cast stuff all over the place to create some chaos.

Nothing wrong with trying out what people ordinarily don't do.  It's how new builds and new methods are discovered.  If you have the money to make it work, do it, otherwise though, I'd advise caution and consideration, but Spears used to be huge in WoE.

Offline RonSilver

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #279 on: June 05, 2014, 03:23:16 PM »
ty for the feedback. i actually have allready most of the equip, so that's not an issue.
well, since there's a way to reset now on classic nothing is written in stone anymore, so i get to just try it and see, can allways go back to the mass popular build if it does not work =P
all coments are welcome anyways.

Offline Onizuka02

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Re: The Knight Thread - Classic Edition
« Reply #280 on: June 06, 2016, 12:24:29 PM »
So which build seems to be best for WoE?