Author Topic: The Knight Thread - Renewal Edition  (Read 58587 times)

Offline Clogon

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The Knight Thread - Renewal Edition
« on: January 28, 2012, 05:47:50 PM »
Everything about Knights, Lord Knights and Rune Knights can be found in here!

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Old info:

Spoiler: show
14.1 brought many changes so updated threads with applicable build advice will help much more than the old threads.

To facilitate the exchange of information and prevent needless posts, please use the a template similar to the following:

Code: [Select]
How can I improve this char?

Class: Perma Champ
Goal: Farming Instance Orc Hero for Orc Sword
Funds: Just started
Gear: Total newbie with only eden gear
Stats: High agi, average str, vit, dex


Old:
http://forums.irowiki.org/showthread.php?t=65994
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:02:38 AM by Blueness »
Ranger Skill Details UPDATED ON: November 23, 2010, did not update Warg Strike, Bite or Sensitive Nose.

My first RO char from beta!
My first marriage!


Blitzstrike, the purple haired hunter:
iRO Ygg: 150/50 Need to me more usefull!

Pros of a Ranger, Pet and Traps ignore all reduction item effects.

Choden, chaser:
iRO Ygg: 117/33 Need more equips!

Pros of a Chaser, Deadly Infect works on MVP\'s.



Offline Noia

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 04:12:22 AM »
I wonder how many player would boost their int,
We still need 100 int or no ?
IdRO Thor Abuser ^^
EB Royal Guard (150/4*)
OB PP Royal Guard (1**/**)
Support MagicGear Mechanic (1**/**)
Full Acid Demons & Vanilmirth BioChemisT (99/70)
Soul Destroyer SinX (99/70)


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Offline BRL

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 11:00:11 PM »
Depends on the build. My short answer is not really.
Got Budd?

Offline Zimran

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 07:01:20 PM »
How would a str,Agi,luk build fair in Ragnarok?
Eh...

Offline Realus

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 12:23:39 AM »
Okay, so I Stat/Skill reset my RK when they handed out free resets with the balance patch, and I pretty much stopped playing iRO.
But my bro wants me to help out in some pvm stuff every now and then (ET mainly I guess), so I'd like to re-stat/skill my RK.

I had:
97+13 Str, 95+5 Vit, 80+20 Int, and 83+17 Luk Dex IIRC.  (Might have stated another 10 onto any of those...)
And my skill build was something like this.

The major things I recall about the update and RKs were:
Lower Max HP (Dragon Breath, and survival in general)
Int =/= Freeze Resist (Less reason for Int)
Storm Blast's Int formula nerfed (Less reason for Int)
Clashing Nerfed (No need to get?)
Hundred Spear Buffed (Should I squeeze points for this?)

---

So I'm pretty much asking, what should I change from my previous build to a more current build?

Right now it looks like I should just drop int for other stats, and drop clashing.
But what can I get instead of clashing? (Knight skills don't seem all that appealing, but it would be a waste to haphazardly throw points around)
Also, is it really a good idea to drop int?  Dragon Breath really takes a lot out of the SP...

---

What should I change from my Old build to fit into 14.1 Balance?

Class:   Dragon-Breath Rune Knight
Goal:   PVM/MVP (Such as Bee in ET);  I don't care at ALL about PVP/BG/KVM;  
If you suggest something for WoE, make it obvious the recommendation is because of it.  (Because I'd like the consideration of WoE, but it's not even close to my primary focus)
Funds:   Let's say enough to buy lose ends for my equipment, but not enough to buy up a Deviling for myself for example. :P
Gear:   Quad Malicious, Immune Nid, +9 Rideword Hat, Glorious Suit, Variants, [Race/Alice] Valk Shield, Fatasm BFG, Diab Rings
(At least, that's all that I can think of that's relevant to DB.  I can probably buy some stuff if you guys recommend I put more emphasis on something else [Hundred Spear / IgnitionBreak+BB])
Stats:   1/1/1/1/1/1;  But my old stat build was pretty much written above.  Recommend me a guild 14.1 DB build.
(Again with WoE, if possible suggest a WoE build and PVM build.  Cause I know I'd need agi for WoE, but I don't think it's useful PVM, unless I need it for HS/IB+BB)

=====

Side note:
The most important info I'd need is what to do with my skill build (Knight Points), as when I figure that out, I can at least throw most of the rest of my stuff into my previous build, as I still have wiggle room with stats there.  (The build stopped putting in stats around mid-130s, and I only need DB for skills)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 01:46:46 PM by Realus »

Offline Smolderbil

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 03:30:19 AM »
I think you mean 83+17 Dex, not 83+17 Luk.

Anyway, maybe tone down Int a little since it's not as valuable as it was pre-14.1. Get the additional SP for DB from other stuff, like the Mora enchants, etc. I'd boost Vit a bit more to increase DB damage, instead of Int. It would increase your survivability too.

Also, it's not really a good idea to ditch Clashing, especially if you plan to get Hundred Spears, since it increases HS's damage. You'd get penalized by Gloomy Shyness too, if you have neither Brandish nor Clashing. Besides, there isn't really anything else to get in the LK skill tree.

You might want to get some Agi to add another dimension to your build. It's pretty useful for PVM as well. Strings would feel a lot better, too.

Here's the question: HS or IB? You can't really get both without sacrificing either Rune Mastery or DB, which are essential skills, IMO. So, you have to decide which of the two weighs more. I won't pinpoint which one to get since both have their pros and cons.

To sum it up, stat build would probably be V > S > D > I > A > L.
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Offline Zimran

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 05:29:25 AM »
Everyone ignores my question for two weeks...answers someone else...
Eh...

Offline Creusceux

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 06:33:03 AM »
Quote from: Zimran;1217794
How would a str,Agi,luk build fair in Ragnarok?

for PVM purpose, ctrl+click build is fine. Pure ctrl+click build is boring though IMO, but thanks to renewal mechanics you can spread your stat to all 6 stat and still maintain good atk, aspd, and survivability.

So its not all about STR,AGI,LUK anymore, its better to also get VIT,DEX,INT. Unless you're planning for CRIT build, 30 LUK is more than enough.
Enchant Blade adds your atk based on your matk. its a good buff, so having a good amount of INT is a good idea. Also there are a lot of stuff adds flat aspd increase (Asir Rune, Alcabringer, etc) so you can tone down you AGI a bit and still get 193 aspd easy.

For MVP and WOE however, they're not as efficient as HS/DB build.

Offline Realus

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 03:00:16 PM »
@Smolderbil
Oops, yes it was Dex.  *Corrects above post*

---

Int/SP:
Spoiler: show
Int down... to what?  70-ish?  (Damn my love for even numbers)

I was looking at the Mora Enchants, and it looks like unless I get lucky with double SP, I shouldn't really rely on them for the SP...  Maybe the Accessories to upgrade the Diab Rings.  (Would also let me slot them, since I don't want to slot the D.Rings with crap, and I don't need the WoE cards in them for PVM)
But it still wouldn't give me much SP compared to D.Rings.  Not enough to compensate for dropping a ton of Int (If I dropped 20 or more), but a small boost...

The only other one to raise SP is the greaves... but I drop variants for those...
+20%HP/SP compared to +2%HP/+340 SP (Best possible result at +9 I think for SP)
I just don't see the trade off of HP being worth it.

I know for Hundred Spear the Ur's set would probably be nice, but running around defaultly, I don't think I want to be glued to the set.


---

About Clashing/Hundred Spear:
Spoiler: show
Hm, your right about clashing.  I should probably still get it.
And I think Hundred Spear would probably be a good option to get.  As I technically have Bowling Bash for a (weaker) Ignition Break.  And I also have Dragon Breath to cover AoE.
Hundred Spear would give me a good single target skill.

What should I do about my skill build though?
http://irowiki.org/~himeyasha/skill4/rkt.html?10HxsOHXgSdssSHOeAcF2XsNIn
I'd spend two of my RK points in LK skills.  Also, there isn't much of anything left to get.
Should I throw the rest of the points into Death Bound or Dragon's Howling(lulz)?

I'm sure I can drop the 1 relax to get Howling/Deathbound 5.  Would it probably be a good idea to do that?  (49 spend in swordie, 70 spent in LK, 48 spent in RK)
Or should I look to find one more LK point I can drop?  (Aura Blade?  Parry?)

Although, if anyone could mention the pros/cons (or link me to an already argued post?) of Hundred Spear vs. Ignition Break;  It would be nice.  (And make it harder for me to decide!)


Stats:
*Throws stats on top of previous build*
107+13 Str (So 150 with Giant Growth)
115+5 Vit (lots of vit... but I do like the HP)
83+17 Dex

Would leave stats for:
80+20 Int, 5+15 Agi (2125~ SP, 176 ASPD 2HS, 168 ASPD 1HSpear)
70+20 Int, 32+15 Agi (2055~ SP, 180 ASPD 2HS, 173 ASPD 1HSpear)
60+20 Int,  47+15 Agi (1987~ SP, 182 ASPD 2HS, 176 ASPD 2HSpear)
(Of course, I can use things like Fighting Spirit for +4 ASPD, or Alcabringer for even more ASPD)

I'm wondering how much Agi I really need.  I mean dropping INT by 20 does only knock off 150~ Max SP...
But I haven't done much that requires ASPD in pvm.  My bowling bash, ignition break, and dragon breath have always been capped by my cast time.  Which would make me think that dex (and... int!) would be more important than agi.
Even in strings, unless I was sporting my -cast time gears to stack with it [As I don't have access to Mjolnir], I still think my cast time caps me abit on how fast I can cast DB.
I'm sure strings + BB wouldn't be capped... But I don't think I'm ever going to use that combo.  
And Ignition break has cooldown, so that's a no go.

This honestly only leaves Hundred Spear's cast time/aftercast/aspd reliance into question IMO.  Is agi going to make this much better?
Or an even better question, if I was running up endless tower.  Will I be using Strings+Hundred Spear much?

So... how does either of my revised stat builds look?  (Yeah, It's still heavily based on my old build... Unless I add some Agi)
And my Skill build?  (The dropping Ignition Break and Relax for Hundred Spear and Dragon's Howling/DeathBound5)

Quote from: Zimran;1222576
Everyone ignores my question for two weeks...answers someone else...

:/  I'd have to think it was more about what questions we asked, and how we asked it.

Spoiler: show
I was giving pretty specific details (meaning, people can imagine my build more), asking for specific things (being a good DB build in PVM), and that's not even touching down on the fact that my question related to a popular build, meaning that everyone has knowledge on how it works.

As a tip, be more specific in your question if you want more help.  Not only will it let people know more about what you want to do with it; but people can see the effort and give you a similar effort in their response.

Technically, with your question; some valid responses would be:
- "It would do fine"
- "It sucks"
But I'm sure if you got those, you would have wished they could have elaborated.  However that isn't fair, because your question was just as shallow.

Maybe if you stated what you wanted to do...
- (PVM, Frenzy Crit Leveling)
- (MVP, Frenzy Critting [I think I saw someone pre-14.1 kill Nid with this])
- (PVP, Frenzy Crit-Locking)
you could have given people an idea on what to comment about.

Even if you mentioned those, it kinda depends on your server too (Well, if you are mentioning non-instanced MVPs or PVP as your reason)
What may work on iRO, may not work on bRO for example.  Because of playstyle differences, and event items that may or may not be present.
(On the other hand, since I was just looking at PVM and instanced MVPs.  I think my build could be blanket answered without any of that information)

This is all, without mentioning that you didn't even attempt to follow the layout Clogon put up in the Topic Post.
There's a reason he did that, as it easily supplies lots of details that I am saying is missing from your post.


TL:DR (Or if you just want ignore my lecture:
Sorry, I dislike ctrl+click classes, so I've never had an interest in them.
Thus, I cannot answer your question.  I wish you luck with someone else who shares your passion.

Offline Creusceux

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 04:46:27 PM »
@Realus

very thorough :)

I guess i'll start with INT part, lowering INT to 60 is not a bad idea. Just for a reference 150SP equals around ~450 DB damage. If you do lower INT, i opt put it on DEX. at least 90 DEX would be nice.
IMO DEX > AGI especially for PVM oriented RK. the only useful skill on your skill build benefited from AGI is Bowling Bash, which unless you're wearing 2-handed sword and THQ, i doubt the difference would be noticeable. and SD aftercast delay with strings is already fast enough, a few aspd change wouldn't matter much. Also, AGI won't affect HS, it has 3 sec cooldown.

about Ur's set. i haven't actually tried it yet, since i don't play iRO, but i've seen +9 Ur's set is actually pretty common among iRO players :o +9 set alone gives 9+2+2+14= 27%HP + fireclock 37%HP+10%SP. with high VIT/hp enchant on plate/manteau and SP enchant on greaves/seal i think it would compensate losing Variant/G.suit/FlameManteau, in terms of DB damage.

for other stat, maybe lower STR to 100 and max your VIT? 150 STR seems a good number, but even with 143 STR, the difference is not that much. And also extra VIT is always nice to have XD

hope it helps..

Offline Realus

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2012, 10:55:14 PM »
@Creusceux

Thanks for the input!

Yeah, I was leaning towards Dex > Int > Agi as well.  Especially with the confirmation on Hundred Spear having a cooldown... I think I really don't need Agi at all for my uses.  (Since there's always the option of just stat resetting if I decide to get into WoE again)

Oh, but what was this line supposed to mean?
"and SD aftercast delay with strings is already fast enough"
The only thing I can think of is either Spear Dynamo... which I don't get.  Or Soul Destoryer, which is the wrong class; so that must be wrong too.

Which skill are you referring to with SD?

---

But about the Ur's set... I still don't like the limitations of it.
I can't opt for elemental armors, because I'll get rid of the set and lose all the bonuses associated with it.  
Not to mention I lose either Nid/Hero Backpack, so I take more from all monsters while wearing the set.
When mobbing in PVM, I'm sure %Reduction is still very handy.  Not to mention some things like Earthquake from ET mvps, it's useful to not take as much damage as possible.

And all of the Ur's set pushes +38% HP, +10% SP;  With +40 SP; and Enchants (Being Vit/HP/Probably +250~ SP [And Ur's Acc SP Enchant]).
But with just Variants + Glorious Suit + Ur's Accessory;  That's already 42% HP, 20% SP, and any enchant the accessory gives me.
Since at 2000~ SP, the extra 10% is approximately +200 SP, it's roughly the same as the Ur's set IMO.
I guess I get more DEF, but I also trade that for how much they weigh.  (Meaning less potions)

Since I already have my equipment, It allows flexibility (Especially Armor Swapping), and it won't require 2 pieces of armor to +9... I think I'll pass on the set.
Spoiler: show
I've geared all my characters since Open Beta with stuff I earn in-game.  I have only ever once used HD ores to upgrade an item; and it was a TSOD that ended up as +7 after all of the zeny [because I don't buy WPE myself] I poured into it.  So while +9 may be common for everyone else in this game, It is in no way the same for me.

[And regardless, even if I did buy WPE; I'm not throwing down $40~ for the +9 gears in a game I rarely play, just because I want to re-set up my RK to help my bro out in instances and stuff]

---

And about the trading of Str for Vit...

I would have done this in a heartbeat before.  I loved their HP pool.
But since the nerf in HP cut like... 10~15% I think?... will the massive points used from 115 -> 120 really be worth the Max HP increase?
Usually I don't even consider 120 in a stat unless a character has something like a formula that directly is affected by the stat.  (Sorcerer IMO for 120 INT)

===

But yes, thanks again everyone.  I think I have a general idea on what I'm going to do now.
Now I won't be 1/1/1/1/1/1 and useless anymore.

Offline Creusceux

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 02:18:54 AM »
Quote from: Realus;1222813
Oh, but what was this line supposed to mean?
"and SD aftercast delay with strings is already fast enough"
The only thing I can think of is either Spear Dynamo... which I don't get.  Or Soul Destoryer, which is the wrong class; so that must be wrong too.

I was referring to Clashing Spiral XD
On my local server, Clashing Spiral named Spear Dynamo, and Spear Dynamo named Concentration.
Its been a while since last time I visit this forum, got those two names confused i guess.
i'm sorry for the confusion XD

the real disadvantage of Ur's set is indeed "the set" itself. Inability to wear Elemental Armors and useful things like Nid's Garb, or on iRO Heroic Backpack maybe, thats kinda a big item in my con list. Makes it ineffective against MVPs with crazy spells. :(

RK HP nerf, actually encourage me to get max VIT on my RK :p. I don't know, i guess i got used having 60k++ HP without peco/G.suit. Which is perfect since INT got nerf, i make a new RK with 50 int and max VIT instead.
It really up to you though, but i do insist, get 100 STR and use it for ET run once. On the next ET run use equip and/or food so that it adds +7 STR. Then you can decide if its worth or not :D

Offline Adrian[Blade]

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 11:07:11 PM »
this is what i'm looking to achieve right now.
http://calc.irowiki.org/?caVcAaYb6abbMbibCaeEeaarBmaaaaaaaalnja4aaaaaakXaaujaav3rYaar4aar1aalZgQr5aajhhaasbfakafffaaaibbdfbka

yea its kinda out of date so idk about the ur set right now so this would be my temporary pvp gear until then. this build is pretty much a tank in my opinion. built for pure DB/HS and a bit of SB spamming. i dont see any point in luk or agi for this build. and the hp nerf can suck a dick!

now for a build with agi/luk (if i wanted to)

http://calc.irowiki.org/?caVcAaYbMb6aYaOaObqKdaapfmhEfnaaaae5aaaaaaaaau6a0ujaav3rYaar4aar1aar5aar5aajhhaasbkafbfffakakbbdfbka

i bet the pertz set would be better. is this calc up to date because if it is then good shit. my weapon of choice would be alot of different high upgraded carded 2hs just cause there is so many ways to use em.

the leveling is gonna take like 2 more weeks and getting the money for all of this depends on how much im trynna spend out of my pockets lol at least til i start farming.

i'm pretty much convince with these builds just cause i like em. but is DB a good leveling skill past 125?? cause if it is then imma just skill change and im set from there.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 11:12:05 PM by Adrian[Blade] »


Just keep on rising.

Offline ninjadog77

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 09:14:08 AM »
My RK is now 150/50. My build is a IB/BB build and I have yet to make a rune or even walk into pvp with him lol. I am about to reset to a hundred spear / dragon breath / crushing strike build. I see a lot of people post about making a Hybrid. Does hybrid basically mean they want to have atk speed with 2h sword but still do good with skills(HS, DB)? If I am really not interested in breaking or melee atk for woe/pvp, how important is AGI. Seems like I could maximize skill dmg(HS, DB) if i ditch AGI. At least make AGI my leftover skill to put points into.
 
Seems like STR/VIT/DEX/INT are the most important. Leaving AGI/LUK as leftover skills. How low can I get by with as far as the leftover skills? Am I going about this all wrong? Is there many 1 AGI RK's out there or is that just silly? :popcorn:

Offline cchanni

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Re: Build Help! Knight/Lord Knight/Rune Knight Post 14.1
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 10:07:26 AM »
Hi, I just made a swordman, I don't have any experience with killing classes, my other characters are caster, what skills should I get as a swordman?