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Old 08-28-2008, 08:59 AM   #1
Doddler
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Default Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread III

This is an old thread, the new thread is here:

http://forums.irowiki.org/showthread.php?t=24798

Important Note: This balance update is still in testing. While you may not like the changes, please discuss them in a civil manner. If your only intention is to post here to complain about things, please do so in the Tirades thread. Posts made in THIS thread simply to complain will be deleted.

Additionally, please do not ask for access to kRO accounts. Please don't PM me either, I can't create accounts on kRO.

Also please don't assume information here is correct, because it could very well not be.

On kRO on July 28th Gravity set up a new test server for their Ragnarok Renewal Project. The Renewal is a full scale re-balancing of Ragnarok. The plan is to make RO more accessible to users, and more in line with modern day MMORPG's. In addition, the new mechanics are intended so that they can easily add and improve on current game content (such as 3rd jobs) without destroying game balance.

Now the renewal balance update has completed its term of closed beta testing and now available for open testing. As testing continues, gravity continues to fine tune the system and make adjustments the game.

The previous discussion thread was becoming too large and becoming difficult to sift through information, so the discussions will be continued in this thread. The old threads are still available here and here.

The following is a list of currently observed changes.

Quote:

Base Stats

Strength (STR) *
- 1 point of STR increases status physical attack power by 1.2
- 5 points of STR increase status defense by 1

Agility (AGI)
- 1 point of AGI increases flee rate by 1
- 4 points of AGI increases your attack speed by 1
- 5 points of AGI increases status defense by 1

Vitality (VIT)
- 1 point of VIT increases your Max HP by 1%
- 1 point of VIT increases your recovery rate by 2%
- 2 points of VIT increases your status defense by 1
- 5 points of VIT increases your status magic defense by 1

Inteligence (INT)
- 1 point of INT decreases your variable cast time by 0.2%. - 1 point of INT increases your status magic attack by 1.5
- 2 points of INT increases your status magic defense by 1

Dexterity (DEX) *
- 1 point of DEX increases your hit rate by 1
- 1 point of DEX decreases your variable cast time by 0.4%.
- 4 points of DEX increases your status magic defense by 1
- 5 points of DEX increases your status magic attack by 1
- 10 points of DEX increases your status physical attack power by 1
- 10 points of DEX increases your attack speed by 1

Luck (LUK)
- 1 point of LUK increases your Critical by 0.3
- 3 points of LUK increases your status physical attack power by 1
- 3 points of LUK increases your status magical attack power by 1
- 3 points of LUK increases your hit by 1
- 7 points of LUK increases your flee by 1
- 10 points of LUK increases your perfect dodge by 1

Base Level
- 1 level increases your HIT rate by 1.
- 1 level increases your FLEE rate by 1.
- 4 levels increases your status ATK by 1.
- 4 levels increases your status MATK by 1.
- 6 levels increases your status DEF by 1.
- 6 levels increases your status MDEF by 1.

* With bows, guns, musical instruments and whips, the increase in physical attack power from Dex and Str are swapped, making Dex the primary damage stat.

Other Stats

Physical Attack Power (ATK)
- Shown in the status window as "status attack power + equipment attack power".
- Attack power gained by your own stats affect status attack power, and your weapon affects equipment attack power.
- Cards and equipment that affect or increase your attack power only affect your equipment attack power.

Magical Attack Power (MATK)
- Shown in the status window as "status magic attack power + equipment magic attack power".
- Magic attack power gained by your own stats affect status magic attack power, and your weapon affects equipment magic attack power.
- All weapons now have a unique magic attack stat which directly affects your equipment magic attack power when equipped.
- Cards and equipment that affect or increase your magic attack power only affect your equipment magic attack power.

Physical Defense (DEF)
- Shown in the status window as "Status defense + Equipment defense".
- Status defense is gained by your own stats, and equipment defense is increased by your current equipped gears and their refine rate.
- Physical defense directly reduces a targets attack power against you. Equipment defense however reduces damage more than your status defense.
- The difference in level between you and the opponent affect how effective your defense is at reducing damage.

Magical Defense (MDEF)
- Shown in the status window as "Status magic defense + Equipment magic defense".
- Status magic defense is gained via your stats, and equipment magic defense is increased by your current equipment and cards.
- Magical defense directly reduces a targets magic attack power against you. The reduction from equipment magic defense makes up a higher % of the total reduction.
- The difference in level between you and the opponent affect how effective your defense is at reducing damage.

Attack Speed (ASPD)
- Attack speed is displayed as a numerical value, which represents an attacking speed unchanged from before the renewal patch. As your approach 200 attack speed, your attacks become increasingly fast (max aspd is 190, representing 5 attacks a second).
- Attack speed varies from job to job, and is effected by the class of weapon equipped, your Level, AGI and DEX stats, and reduced when equipping a shield.
- Stats and and equipment that affect ASPD modify it by a direct amount instead of by a %. For example, Two-Hand Quicken will give you a flat +5 aspd.
- Equipping a shield reduces your ASPD by approximately 5.

Accuracy (HIT)
- Shown in the status window as "Status HIT + Equipment HIT bonus".
- The base status HIT is 175, and is increased by your level, Dex and Luk.
- Your status hit and equipment hit affect your final hit rate equally.

Evasion (FLEE)
- Shown in the status window as "Status FLEE + Equipment FLEE bonus".
- The base status FLEE is 100, and increased by your level, Agi, and Luk.
- Your status flee and equipment flee affect your final dodge rate equally.

Final Accuracy
- The ability to hit or dodge a target physically is based on a ratio of the HIT and FLEE between you and the target.
- As your HIT raises above the targets FLEE, it becomes increasingly difficult to dodge. The opposite is true, if the opponent has higher FLEE than you have HIT, you will have difficulty in landing a hit.
- While the base numbers for HIT and FLEE have changed, the actual formula has not changed substantially.

Casting Time
- Cast time of all skills is now composed of two parts, a fixed cast time and a variable cast time.
- Fixed cast time cannot be reduced by any means, and represents the fastest a skill can possibly be cast.
- The fixed casting portion of all skills is set to 20% of the skills total casting time. Other than skills with a fixed un-reducible cast time, there are no exceptions to the ratio of 20%/80% fixed/variable cast time.
- Variable cast time can be decreased via your DEX and INT stats, as well as equipment and skills such as Suffragium and Magic strings.
- The cast time of skills at this time during testing have not changed (with the exception of cold bolt/fire bolt/lightning bolt).

Critical Chance (Crit)
- Your critical rate is calculated the same as before, and represents a % chance to land a critical hit, affected by your LUK and current equipment.
- Your critical rate is reduced by the LUK of the target, and reduced if the target is a higher level than you.
- Katar type weapons double the effect of the crit stat.

Perfect Dodge (pDodge)
- Perfect Dodge is no longer shown within the status window.
- However pDodge works the same as before, perfect dodge is a direct % chance to evade a normal (non skill) physical attack.
- Perfect Dodge is increased with higher luck and specific equipment.

Perfect Hit (pHit)
- Perfect Hit is not displayed within the client window.
- pHit is a direct % chance to hit the target, regardless of your hit and evasion rates.
- Perfect Hit can only be gained via special equipment.

Character Leveling

Increased Weighting on Level Difference
- Players are rewarded for fighting monsters of their own level, as well as those slightly harder.
- When in combat a player or monster that is higher level receives a bonus to their hit rate, critical rate and damage, and the lower level one faces a penalty to their evasion, and physical and magical defense. The penalties increase as the level difference widens.
- If you are lower level than the monster you are killing, you receive a bonus to your experience for your kills (+1% per level difference, with +10% bonus at 5 levels).
- A player or monster being hit by a lower level target additionally receives a bonus to their defense values.
- If you are 5 or more levels below a monster, you begin to receive a 30% penalty to your damage, hit, and evasion rates.
- If you are 10 or more levels below a monster, you will receive a 60% penalty to your damage, hit and evasion rates.
- As the gap in level widens, you'll become less and less likely to be able to deal any real damage to the target monster.

- If you are between 5-8 levels above a monster, you will receive a penalty to experience gained from that monster.
- At 5 levels above the target monster, you will incur a 50% penalty to the experience gained by killing it. Each additional level reduces the experience gained by an additional 10%, capping at an 80% reduction of the total experience.

- The level penalties go both ways, so a low level monster attacking you will also receive a penalty to their damage, hit, and evasion, and you will receive a bonus to your defense.

Experience Gain
- The experience table has been drastically changed.
- Because of wide-scale modifications to monster levels, monster experience, and the weighting of your own level, the amount of base experience required to level up has dropped drastically.
- Job level requirements are balanced differently. You are likely to hit job 50 on your first job around level 50, and job 50 on your second job near level 85-90.

Experience Chart
- The following is the current known experience requirement for non-transcendent characters, along with some samples of how much experience optimal monsters give at that level.

level 1 - 550 exp
level 3 - 1500 exp
level 4 - 2200 exp (porings worth 30 exp)
level 5 - 3200 exp (fabres worth 60 exp)
level 7 - 4200 exp (hornets worth 90 exp)
level 9 - 5000 exp (hornets worth 80 exp)
level 10 - 5500 exp
level 11 - 6000 exp (rockers worth 114 exp)
level 12 - 6100 exp
level 13 - 6350 exp
level 15 - 7350 exp
level 17 - 8400 exp
level 23 - 12000 exp
level 34 - 23000 exp (coco worth 312 exp)
level 35 - 24000 exp
level 36 - 26000 exp
level 37 - 27500 exp
level 38 - 29000 exp (orc ladys worth 445 exp)
level 49 - 50500 exp (orc zombies worth 470 exp)
level 63 - 77000 exp
level 65 - 84000 exp
level 68 - 95000 exp (argiope worth 1053 exp)
level 71 - 140000 exp
level 86 - 600000 exp (soliders worth 1775 exp)
level 87 - 680000 exp
level 98 - 4000000 exp

- Transcend characters require exactly twice the experience (base and job) as non-transcend characters.

Monster Arrangement and Re-leveling
- The spawn of most monsters across the game world have been widely changed.
- Areas are changed so that maps generally group monsters of similar level together.
- To accommodate this, the stats, skills, and level of most monsters in game have been drastically altered.
- The adjustment in zones is done in such a way that players should always have a place to level their class within their level range.
- Some zones have been adjusted to be high end, with monster levels appearing above 100.

- Current known monster sense information can be found here.
- A map of all fields, and their respective levels are shown at the end of this post.
- A map of most in game dungeons and the levels can be found here.

Removed Maps and Map Changes
- The following maps have been removed either temporarily or permanently as part of scaling the game world. In testing, the warps to access these maps were non existent and gravity marked these maps as removed.

gef_fild12
gef_fild14
pay_fild05
pay_fild11
cmd_fild05
yuno_fild05
yuno_fild10
hu_fild03
hu_fild07
ein_fild02
ein_fild10
ra_fild02
ra_fild07
ra_fild09
ra_fild10
ra_fild11
ra_fild13
ve_fild01
ve_fild05
um_dun01
um_dun02

- The village of Umballa now directly connects to the yggdrassil tree roots.
- The map ein_fild01 now connects to ein_fild03.
- The map ve_fild04 now connects to ve_fild06.

- The entrance to the 'Ant Hell' dungeon has been moved from moc_fild20 (Crack of Dimension) to cmd_fild08 (East Fortress Saint Darmain).

Skill Balancing

Acolyte

Heal
* The amount healed for has changed. Heal is now directly influenced by your magic attack power.
* The amount healed is no longer fixed, but is a range influenced by your stats and skill level.
* Modifiers that affected heal before will still work as they did.

Mage

Safety Wall
* When safety wall blocks the maximum number of hits, a new wall cannot be placed on that cell for a short period of time.

Fire Bolt / Cold Bolt / Lightning Bolt
* The cast time of these skills has been reduced by approximately 50%.

Knight

Two Hand Quicken
* Two Hand quicken now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.

Priest

Suffragium
* Now only reduces the variable portion of skill casting time.

BS Sacrimenti
* Now allows attacks to bypass defense of demon / undead monsters.

Turn Undead
* The success rate of Turn Undead is changed.
* On failure the damage of Turn undead is a holy attack influenced by your magic attack power.

Wizard

Meteor Storm
* The damage of Meteor Storm is increased.

Lord of Vermilion
* The damage of Lord of Vermilion is increased.

Storm Gust
* The damage of Storm Gust is increased.
* Stormgust's chance to freeze has changed. It now is a chance to freeze per hit of stormgust. Level 1 stormgust has a 25% chance to freeze, and the chance increases at 5% per level up to 70% chance to freeze per hit with level 10.

Heaven's Drive
* The damage of Heaven's Drive is increased.

Blacksmith

Adrenaline Rush
* Adrenaline Rush now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.

Crusader

Grand Cross
* Grand Cross is influenced by both the physical attack power and magical attack power of the user.
* Grand Cross is reduced by a combination of physical defense power and magical defense power of the target.

Spear Quicken
* Spear Quicken now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.

Monk

Occult Impaction
* Occult Impaction is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and the physical equipment DEF of the target.

Mental Strength
* Instead of modifying your defense/magic defense, simply reduces all incoming damage to 1/10.

Alchemist

Acid Terror
* Acid Terror is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and increased by the VIT of the target.
* Acid Terror deals 1/2 damage on boss targets now.

Bomb
* Bomb is now influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.

Bard

Impressive Rift
* Impressive Rift now increases attack speed by a fixed amount (per level).

Magic Strings
* Now only reduces the variable portion of skill casting time.

Lord Knight

Frenzy
* Frenzy now increases attack speed by a fixed amount.

Clashing Spiral
* Clashing Spiral is now influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and the weight of the current equipped weapon.

Assassin Cross

Soul Destroyer
* Soul Destroyer is influenced by your physical and magical attack power.
* Soul Destroyer's damage is reduced by a combination of both physical and magical defense of the target.

Meteor Assault
* Meteor Assault is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.

High Priest

Assumptio
* Assumptio has been completely changed. Assumptio now increases your physical and magical defense by 100% for the skill duration. In PVP and WoE, the bonus is only 35%.
* However, skills that bypass your physical or magical defense will ignore the effects of assumptio.

High Wizard

Stave Crasher
* Stave Crasher is influenced by both the users physical attack power and magical attack power.
* Stave Crasher is reduced only by the targets physical defense.

Scholar

Soul Exhale
* The amount of SP transferable with Soul Exhale has changed. Now you cannot give a target more than 50% of their max SP with the skill.

Mind Breaker
* The damage of Mind Breaker is now influenced by (status + equip) magical attack power.

Biochemist

Acid Bomb
* Acid Bomb is now influenced by the users physical attack power, the users magical attack power, and the VIT of the target.
* Acid Bomb damage is now reducable by a combination of both physical defense and magical defense of the target.

Equipment Changes

Some pieces of equipment have been changed for the renewal patch. In particular, most rods and some books now grant equipment magic attack power.

Daggers

Ashura - 78 MAtk
Bazerald - 100 MAtk

Rods

Rod - 30 Matk
Wand - 45 Matk
Staff - 75 Matk
Wizardry Staff - 82 Matk
Gentleman's Staff - 82 Matk
Staff of Soul - 85 Matk
Divine Cross - 87 Matk
Release of Wish - 90 Matk
Staff of Wing - 90 Matk
Staff of Recovery - 90 Matk
Staff of Piercing - 95 Matk
Arc Wand - 95 Matk
Mighty Staff - 100 Matk
Wand of Occult - 105 Matk
Eraser - 110 Matk
Dark Thorn Staff - 116 Matk
Survivor's Rod - 120 Matk
Hypnotist's Staff - 120 Matk
Staff of Destruction - 145 Matk
Lich's Bone Wand - 155 Matk

Books

Hardcover Book - 25 Matk
Giant Encyclopedia - 70 Matk
Sage's Diary - 90 Matk
Magic Tactics - 92 Matk
Ancient Magic - 95 Matk

* Other books do not grant any MATK bonus.

Formulas

Weapon Attack

Min: (2*[equipAtk] + 1.5*[str + luk/3 + level/4 + str/5 + dex/10]) * SkillModifier + mastery - ArmorDef*2 -statusDef*1.5

Max: (2*[equipAtk + (weaponAtk*weaponLvl)/20] + 1.5*[str + luk/3 + level/4 + str/5 + dex/10]) * SkillModifier + mastery - ArmorDef*2 -statusDef*1.5

- Unarmed attacks substitute strangth as weapon attack, and counts as a level 1 weapon.

Magic Attack

Min: (2*(equipMatk) + 1.5*(1.5*int + luk/3 + level/4 + dex/5)) * SkillModifier - ArmorMDef*2 - statusMDef*1.5

Max: (2*(equipMatk+[weaponMatk*weaponLvl/10]) + 1.5*(1.5*int + luk/3 + level/4 + dex/5)) * SkillModifier - ArmorMDef*2 - statusMDef*1.5

Heal

Heal Amount: (MagicAttack * skillLevel) / 4 * HealBonusModifier

- MagicAttack is a number between Min and Max according to the magic attack formula.

Monster Spawn Arrangement Map


Also, please don't make this into a 'balance changes I want to see' thread. ^^; Keep it on topic!

Last edited by Blueness; 03-20-2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: archived~
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

statusatk = str + luk/3 + level/4 + str/5 + dex/10
final dmg = ([(statusatk*2+[(skillatk+equipatk+upgradeatk)*element reductions*element modifier])*race reductions*size reductions*skillmodifier]-(armordef+statusdef))*skillhits

Where skillatk is from things such as masteries. Not 100% certain on this yet, but it's quite close. We still need to test where masteries come into effect in this.
This is for max attack only!

(Most multi-hit abilities have a 1.00 mod for 'skill modifier', so sonic blow would be 8 skillhits and 1.00 skillmodifier, where Bash (400% mod) would have a 4.00 skill modifier, and 1 hit, and pierce (200% per hit) would have a 2.00 mod, and 1, 2, or 3 for hits. On medium monsters, pierce should always do less than bash unless the target has no defense at all.)
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Last edited by Kairuni; 01-16-2009 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Why don't you make a topic for the news (postable only by Doddler, Atum and etc.), other for questions and answers about the renewal and other for general discussion?

Last edited by Dynamo; 01-16-2009 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Status Atk for Guns, Bows, Whips and Instruments is: Statusatk = Dex + luk/3 + level/4 + Dex/5 + Str/10

And what about Spear Dynamo and Falcon Eyes?(Lord Knight and Sniper respective skills) How they`re counts?
How much base ASPD have all weapons? How much ASPD giving ASPD potions?

Last edited by Lucentos; 01-16-2009 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Hmm, first post needs updating. :/
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

How about the status effects?

Can MDEF and LUCK still reduce the chance to be frozen and stone curse?
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

With all the information and questions about renewal... why not just create it's own forum section, instead of just a pinned thread in the general chat section?
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pred View Post
With all the information and questions about renewal... why not just create it's own forum section, instead of just a pinned thread in the general chat section?
I agree.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

A separate section might be appropriate.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

http://forums.irowiki.org/showthread.php?t=21836
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

uh because i havent kept up to date with all these renewal changes i have a question

heard a rumor that bb only works with 2hand swords can anyone c/d?

if thats true imma qq hard
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Just a rumor. I have it on my spear RK
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Any info on dual wielding ASPD?
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Assassin aspd:
1+10 agi 1+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 151
Barehand and 1 Shield : 145
Katar : 149
1 Dagger : 149
1 Sword : 141
2 Dagger : 139
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 137
1 Sword manhand 1 Dagger offhand : 131
2 Swords : 129 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 143 aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 135 aspd

70+10 agi 32+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 172
Barehand and 1 Shield : 166
Katar : 170
1 Dagger : 170
1 Sword : 162
2 Dagger : 160
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 158
1 Sword mainhand 1 Dagger offhand : 152
2 Swords : 150 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 164aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 156 aspd

99+10 agi 42+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 178
Barehand and 1 Shield : 172
Katar : 176
1 Dagger : 176
1 Sword : 168
2 Dagger : 166
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 164
1 Sword mainhand 1 Dagger offhand : 158
2 Swords : 156 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 170aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 162 aspd

This all is without agi or +aspd equip.
Buffs (agi bless) would add 3~4 aspd.
SinX aspd should be ~1 aspd more since they get additional +5 agi on jobbonus.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

A level 97/62 sniper with 41+3 vit should have 8529 hp according to doddlers calc without any hp gears.
In renewal the same sniper (97/62) has 10930 hp with the same stats (41+3 vit) and no equipment.

Vit seems to give a lot more hp now or hp-modifier for some classes have been modified.
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

I don't know if it's a bug (Probably is) but using ifrit rings, a successful Spiritual Sphere Absorption triggers autocast skills (It triggered fireball, sonic blow, and the like), I'm kinda scared of it triggering asura while I'm trying to replenish SP >>'
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Spirit Sphere Absorption can trigger autocast gears. I would be SSAing during the recent Christmas event with my Antonio Hat on and had triggered both Blessing and Heal. I believe it works in a similar way as Provoke. (Interesting side note, if you get a successful SSA on a monster during a interruptable cast, it will interrupt it. lol)
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atum View Post
Assassin aspd:
1+10 agi 1+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 151
Barehand and 1 Shield : 145
Katar : 149
1 Dagger : 149
1 Sword : 141
2 Dagger : 139
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 137
1 Sword manhand 1 Dagger offhand : 131
2 Swords : 129 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 143 aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 135 aspd

70+10 agi 32+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 172
Barehand and 1 Shield : 166
Katar : 170
1 Dagger : 170
1 Sword : 162
2 Dagger : 160
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 158
1 Sword mainhand 1 Dagger offhand : 152
2 Swords : 150 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 164aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 156 aspd

99+10 agi 42+8 dex Awake pot
Barehand : 178
Barehand and 1 Shield : 172
Katar : 176
1 Dagger : 176
1 Sword : 168
2 Dagger : 166
1 Dagger Mainhand 1 Sword offhand : 164
1 Sword mainhand 1 Dagger offhand : 158
2 Swords : 156 aspd
1 Dagger 1 Shield : 170aspd
1 Sword 1 Shield : 162 aspd

This all is without agi or +aspd equip.
Buffs (agi bless) would add 3~4 aspd.
SinX aspd should be ~1 aspd more since they get additional +5 agi on jobbonus.
Ok, I really hope I'm not just pointing out the obvious or something....
Buuuuuut, I did some math, and I just wanna point out some things.

The second set increased from the first by 21 on all weapons.
The third set increased from the second by 6 on all weapons.

This shows a strong contrast to the current aspd formula. That Agi & Dex are not so related to Weapon Delay as before, that they are subtractive of eachother, not ratios.

Showing my work OLD ASPD FORMULA:
ASpd = [200 - SpeedMods * (WeaponDelay - ([WeaponDelay*Agi/25] + [WeaponDelay*Dex/100])/10)].

to simplify this down slightly.... distribute the 10, and factor the WeaponDelay... assume speed mods == 1, and get out the trunc's - for simplicity. and to seperate, I use X.

ASpd = 200 - X

X = WeaponDelay * (1 - (Agi/250 + Dex/1000)).

This shows that your Agi and Dex are a percentage reduction based off the weapon youre using. I.E.: Use different weapons, the same amount of Dex and Agi will help you differently.

Quick Math with Doddlers calc. OLD FIGURES! NOT RENEWAL!:
1 base Agi / 1 base Dex
Bare 160.3
1 dagger 151.39
2 dagger 133.28
sword 135.5
2 sword 109.7

70/40
bare 172.9 (increased from prev set +12.6)
dagger 166.88 (increased from prev set +15.49)
2 dagger 154.5 (increased from prev set +21.22)
sword 156 (increased from prev set +20.5)
2 sword 138.4 (increased from prev set +28.7)

99/99
bare 179.9 (increased from prev set +7)
dagger 175.4 (increased from prev set +8.52)
2 dagger 166.3 (increased from prev set +11.8)
sword 167.4 (increased from prev set +11.4)
2 sword 154.4 (increased from prev set +16)


In summary, the new aspd calc is something along the lines of (my guess):

X = ((Agi * ConstA) + (Dex * ConstB)) - (WeaponDelay * ConstC)

ConstA,B,C being some constants. (Like the old 1/250, 1/1000, and 1 respectively)


So agi and dex helps equally accross all weapons. Hope I helped and tried to give some insight.... somewhere. Please don't mistake my figures for fact. I'm guessing and making observations. I don't play renewal.

(trying to stop any misinterpretations)

*steps away to do some math*
*while later, I come back*

OK! I was wrong, kind of..
I still say that they are not ratios, and are subtractive...
But the agi and dex are not simply = ((Agi * ConstA) + (Dex * ConstB))

Its a lot more complicated.
Using Atums numbers I found:
ConstB = 0.933014354 = 195/209
and (get ready)
ConstA = -0.114832536 = -24 / 209

The common denominators gives me hope that I'm close, but the fact that ConstA is negative is just stupid. This would mean that with the more Agi you get your aspd goes down. I had heard in one of these threads that this does happen when allocating some points of agi. Also the fact that ConstB > ConstA means that Dex helps more than Agi. That is also stupid. This would imply that the formula between Dex and Agi is far more complex. Sadly, I do not play renewal. If someone were to pass me more statistics on aspd and more variables, I might be able to get a good formula....
Though, if some points of agi make aspd go down, the formula may still be under some work. So I don't know if its worth it to find out this (possibly retarded) formula if it were to just change not too far after.


Anyways, theres my discoveries. Hope it helped a little. If anyone wants to toss me some figures, I'll toss my math hat into the ring.



Sources:
RODE Calc
RODataZone
MATH (hopefully)

Last edited by Kr4t0s; 01-17-2009 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #19
Atum
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,113
Server: iRO Chaos
Class: Assassin Cross

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Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

Its pretty simple as far as i experienced it :
1 aspd for 4 agi
1 aspd for 10 dex
Nothing more.

Aspd : baseaspd of your class + (agi/4) + (dex/10) + aspd pot + aspd skill - weapon aspd penalty - shield aspd penalty

Aspd pot boni i know:
Concentration potion: +4 aspd
Awakening potion : +6 aspd
Berserk potion : +9 aspd

Aspd skills i know so far :
Two hand quicken : +7 aspd
Frenzy : +15 aspd

Shield aspd penalty i know so far :
Assassin : -6 aspd
Alchemist : -4 aspd
Rune Knight : -15 aspd

Last edited by Atum; 01-17-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #20
Toledo
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,307

Default Re: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 3

So... assassins and alchemists are more proficient with shields than knights?

Aghh curse you logic, stay away
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