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Old 05-25-2009, 10:40 PM   #1
teh_hungry_cavalry
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Post Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

This is not your standard Help me with my Paladin Build. I would like to have a discussion whether this overrated skill on a Support-Oriented Class is worth making as your primary skill. I'm still not moved by 99/99/25 (VAS) build because it's very limited and has little to no-use, in terms of Utilization. It's just another DD when there are other classes capable of doing it, even better.

Although my build has MR in it, I use it as an act of Desperation - when the need for an immediate damage is direly needed and I have a lot of HP and little to no SP to use another skill.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Judging by the wording in your initial post it seems your mind is already made up regarding the skill so why the need for discussion?

My 2 cents on it are as follows: If you have a Tao Gunka card, then by all means center your build around MR and Sac. If you do not, then find something else to work with. And if you do end up with Tao, don't go 99/99/25. If you gear right, you'll be doing high enough damage per hit that maxing agi is a waste of stat points.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:03 AM   #3
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

I've never been killed by a MR paladin that didn't have tao gunka. I am not sure what you mean by "overrated". If you're going a support oriented build (VIT/DEX/INT) then your MR will be even more abysmal. So you've basically answered your own question.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

The pain is not worth.

MR is very underpowered compared with other damage skills. It is useless against ghostry enemies. And the waste of HP and SP is too high.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

With the new BG set it might actually be worth it. +35% hp could make MR fun. Obviously, not as good as a tao pally, but still fun.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

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Originally Posted by Solarcow105 View Post
With the new BG set it might actually be worth it. +35% hp could make MR fun. Obviously, not as good as a tao pally, but still fun.
Add a tao for even more fun lol
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

The new bg armors aren't slotted...
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

If you have GR and you get MR'ed, even by a tao'ed pala, it's lol.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Well actually, I'm a bit tired to explain to other people that a build that focuses too much on a single skill that is rather fairly easy to counter isn't worth the pain. They make MR + Spear Quicken Build... that BTW made me lol harder. It's either they're telling that it can own PvP and whatnot but my opinion is that the power of the Paladin can be seen in protecting it's allies through Sacrifice(Devotion) or Gospel(Battle Chant) for +20 Stats. Shield Chain(Rapid Smiting) is also good for it can be paired to almost any build. So I'll be using this as reference for them to realize how unworthy this skill is to even spend your precious time and money.

Oh yeah, another thing... I'm more of a 70/80/92 SVD Paladin.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Does this skill fare better than Grand Cross?
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

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Originally Posted by Zodiark
Does this skill fare better than Grand Cross?
For PvM? Probably not, since it's single target and you'll likely damage yourself far more than you would GC mobbing.

For PvP? I'd argue it's the better of the 2. GC is fixed position with a cast time. MR is spike damage at your aspd that relies on a stat (Vit) that is desirable in PvP anyway for improving your durability and status resistance. And while people can (and will) point out GR as a counter to MR, Holy armor is an effective enough counter to GC and it's obtainable by more methods than just a card (see BSS, BC).
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

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I've never been killed by a MR paladin that didn't have tao gunka. I am not sure what you mean by "overrated". If you're going a support oriented build (VIT/DEX/INT) then your MR will be even more abysmal. So you've basically answered your own question.
I killed your 9x gypsy back on iris with an 86 MR paladin (No DA yet), I had marie and you had some priest and you just bitched about me having a hp and you didn't

MR is awesome, I loved it back when I played but nowadays don't expect to be killing the high hp guys, I usually just took out stalkers sin, hw and archer characters with my pally and had sac to support
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

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I killed your 9x gypsy back on iris with an 86 MR paladin (No DA yet), I had marie and you had some priest and you just bitched about me having a hp and you didn't
I've killed a lord knight with a ~50 INT firebolt, let's all make level 35 mages for WoE. Do you listen to yourself talk? You can set up unfair battles where you have a high priest slaving you against one of the worst classes to PVP with and deny that player white pots, and you can kill them with BASH or MELEE if you wanted to. You disdn't have a reason for posting, did you? Other than to stroke your e-peen? Cause you're not supporting an argument to get MR one bit.
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Old 05-27-2009, 02:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

I play a guildie's 90/90/60 185 Aspd MR Paladin in WoE and I don't think I'd call it useless. Even with spare gears (no variants, valk armor, elemental armor or anything good..) I drop plenty of people, not all of which are squishies. Sure, it uses a ton of supplies (the way I play it, I use about 1200-1700 whites and 200 blues during seige) , but it's also tons of fun to play.

Granted, it's not an EDP Sonic Blow, Acid Bomb, or G-Fist in terms of damage, and I don't solo LKs or Paladins with it, my kill count seems to be fairly high each WoE with it. And while it's true that it does not work against GR, the skill is still fairly useful at taking out tough people in a precast where they wouldn't be using GR anyway. Also, I love shield reflecting Gfists :]

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Old 05-27-2009, 04:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_hungry_cavalry View Post
Well actually, I'm a bit tired to explain to other people that a build that focuses too much on a single skill that is rather fairly easy to counter isn't worth the pain. They make MR + Spear Quicken Build... that BTW made me lol harder. It's either they're telling that it can own PvP and whatnot but my opinion is that the power of the Paladin can be seen in protecting it's allies through Sacrifice(Devotion) or Gospel(Battle Chant) for +20 Stats. Shield Chain(Rapid Smiting) is also good for it can be paired to almost any build. So I'll be using this as reference for them to realize how unworthy this skill is to even spend your precious time and money.

Oh yeah, another thing... I'm more of a 70/80/92 SVD Paladin.

RS is basically the same shit, except its ranged and has a cast time. AKA Both get raped by GR. Pali's are generally weak to GR, so unless you're an instant cast GC build, I don't think there's any real reason to compare the two in PvP/WoE and just go with preference.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Though it does not require even 0.00001% of your HP.

It is a given that both are raped by GR but never forget that Rapid Smiting relies on STR and there are other skills that rely on STR and are not forced Neutral.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

When I play my stalker I giggle when I get MR'd, it hardly ever does more than even 10% of my HP per hit. They'd probably kill themselves first. That's without even switching to a GR mind you.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardney Wolf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiark
Does this skill fare better than Grand Cross?
For PvM? Probably not, since it's single target and you'll likely damage yourself far more than you would GC mobbing.

For PvP? I'd argue it's the better of the 2. GC is fixed position with a cast time. MR is spike damage at your aspd that relies on a stat (Vit) that is desirable in PvP anyway for improving your durability and status resistance. And while people can (and will) point out GR as a counter to MR, Holy armor is an effective enough counter to GC and it's obtainable by more methods than just a card (see BSS, BC).
But with MR how do you handle mobs in pvp/WoE? If it works, in 1v1 situations MR wins no doubt since you can just shield boom GR armors with Mailbreaker, though GCing using quad freeze weapons is also doable. Also GC has better burst damage no?

And last question, how do you level STR-less MR pally?
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

I say depends on the player/gears they use... seen high end Palis on all three major damage builds, with RS being the deadliest in woe, then MR, then GC.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Martyr's Reckoning: Is it worth the pain?

In terms of support, you should probably use MR to shoo off ppl on your sac line. Tao MR is like....3k a hit on a non GR I think. If you could get the whole 5 hits off then yoru target has to have more than 15k or pot/healed off a good chunk to survive. Non tao would be 1.5k in theory(half of tao). 7.5k is easier to deal with but you never know when that might kill an oppositing person.

The other arguement is with thorny shields + bg spear yoru typical 150 dex 100 vit build has 180 aspd. I think 99 agi builds only hit 186 with the same setup.
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