iRO Wiki  

Go Back   iRO Wiki > Ragnarok Online > Renewal Class Discussion

Renewal Class Discussion Everything about Renewal Classes in here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-17-2011, 11:53 AM   #1
Akin
Stapo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 729
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Arashikage
Class: Maestro

Default Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

I'm not sure if they are removing the fixed cast reduction of Dances with Wargs with the next set of kRO updates, but I wanted to share this information.

I managed to wrangle up 12 3rd class performers about a month ago for the purpose of testing the fixed cast reduction of Dances with Wargs and this is what I found:
  • The fixed cast time reduction stops at 50% (I'm guessing that this is a hardcoded max reduction by the server). This means that after 5 performers, you get no added benefit from this skill.
  • The fixed cast time from Dances with Wargs DID stack with Sacrament, as long as we had less than 5 performers, and the level of Sacrament was below level 5. For example, 2 performers, casting Dances and an AB casting level 1 Sac, would produce a 30% reduction in fixed cast time. While level 5 Sac and 3 performers would give a 50% fixed cast time reduction (no change from Sac 5).
  • The SP cost reduction of Chorus skills stopped at 5 as well. For those that don't know, SP cost of Chorus skills is reduced by 10% for each performer. What this means, is that Dances with Wargs never got below a 60 SP cost, though it still took SP from all 12 performers.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to test other chorus skills at the time so I don't know if the same thing applies to them. But what this could mean is that Lerad's Dew is capped at 1900 bonus HP, Song of Mana would recover 16 SP every 5 seconds, and Great Echo would cap at 1700% damage.

I guess it really doesn't affect anything since having 12 performers in a party is unrealistic anyway, and even at 12 performers, those numbers won't jump that much higher. But if these skills are coded to cap out at 5 performers, then kRO must have realized that too, so why did they make the skills so crappy?

Opps, I went from information sharing to rant. I'll stop now. Looking forward to kRO updates!
__________________
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Akin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 06:52 AM   #2
Frost
Trigger Happy
 
Frost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thailand
Posts: 5,155
Server: tRO Retired
Class: Guillotine Cross

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

I remember vaguely that this skill will also be buffed to increase Ranger's Warg damage. However, I can't seem to find that patch note right now. Or was I daydreaming? Anyways, it's something to look forward to for Rangers.
__________________
Goodbye Ragnarok Online. Hello Diablo 3 Dota 2!.
Frost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 07:40 AM   #3
Jayed
Tirades' Princess
 
Jayed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 4,650
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Volkiba
Class: Genetic

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

1700% great echo I am not sure but I don't think that is more than 5.5k damage in WoE... would need to be like 7x higher than that to kill high HP classes with lex aeterna. Capping at 5 performers and adding as little as it does per performer is just silly. For a 10 second re-use delay it really should be like 2000% * # of performers, ending at 10,000%, so that it does around 32k in WoE.
__________________
iRO Yggdrasil
Jayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 08:43 AM   #4
amerlia
Poporing
 
amerlia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 243
Server: iRO Loki
Class: Wanderer

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

IDK, performers were always support classes anyway. AoE annoyance is what they're best for. Their DPS is really for either LOLz or PvM. I never really expected to 1 shot anyone in WoE unless it's some random wizard back in the day with AV. Now, tbh, it's really like Siren's, DSL, Despair, SG. Occasional Meloncholy or Tarot to throw in some fun. Other than that, the only time I SR, is if I see people under a psychic wave or something, to add more DPS.
__________________
Classic: After School // Where's Kaite? // t r a s h ?
Renewal: Ping-Chan_YM

♫♪ ♥'s:
댄스: Dual Life -- 라니아: Just Go
Rihanna: Stay (Feat. Mikky Ekko)
amerlia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 12:43 PM   #5
Akin
Stapo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 729
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Arashikage
Class: Maestro

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
I remember vaguely that this skill will also be buffed to increase Ranger's Warg damage. However, I can't seem to find that patch note right now. Or was I daydreaming? Anyways, it's something to look forward to for Rangers.
It was actually your post Doddler never translated that part it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amerlia View Post
IDK, performers were always support classes anyway. AoE annoyance is what they're best for. Their DPS is really for either LOLz or PvM. I never really expected to 1 shot anyone in WoE unless it's some random wizard back in the day with AV. Now, tbh, it's really like Siren's, DSL, Despair, SG. Occasional Melancholy or Tarot to throw in some fun. Other than that, the only time I SR, is if I see people under a psychic wave or something, to add more DPS.
I agree, if they adequately buff the chorus skills, I think I would care less about the damaging skills.

Personally, I use SR with sword and mail breakers, even though I know most people have kvm weapons and valk armor. Just deluding myself I guess
__________________
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Akin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 01:33 PM   #6
Jayed
Tirades' Princess
 
Jayed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 4,650
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Volkiba
Class: Genetic

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Other classes people talk about how it is unacceptable for the class to have a # of skills that are essentially worthless with no reason to get. Why should performers be an exception? So what if they have support abilities? Even Sura has support buff abilities. Just about every class has a disable on par with DSL in terms of hindering players from participating in a fight, being it locking the ability to even cast skills, making skills uncastable due to fixed cast time, causing flinch effects over time to break casts, or literally rooting people in place indefinitely with AoE skills like cursed circle and manhole.

Performers have five offensive skills and SR is the only useable one. That sounds to me like 4 of them need to be corrected to have some function, be it PVM, or otherwise.

Also even bard/dancer were not full support characters. They had double strafe, sling arrow/melody strike, arrow vulcan, essentially 'medium' level offensive abilities to go with their 'medium' level support ability. Alchemist was more of a support character than performers pre-trans, with mammonite, acid terror, and plants having lower DPS in both PVP and PVM than Double Strafe. Really right now, Genetic is where performer should be, a sort of half and half class. Genetic has the ability to kill people but not in a top-tier way, with Hell Plant. I don't think 6 vs 1 (5 performer and a priest) being able to kill someone with Great echo is out of the question. If you do I would be DAMN CURIOUS why you think 6 vs 1 shouldn't be able to kill the 1, even if they aren't full dps classes.
__________________
iRO Yggdrasil

Last edited by Jayed; 06-19-2011 at 01:34 PM.
Jayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 02:15 PM   #7
amerlia
Poporing
 
amerlia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 243
Server: iRO Loki
Class: Wanderer

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Claws are out-- just kidding. Heh. I agree with you, Jayed and Akin.

@Akin-- using a weapon breaker on a maestro on an emp is probably a safe bet. Unless it's full-coated. Other than that, yeah.. lol. Yay for additional DPS.

@Jayed-- You're right. Some sort of damaging skill would be nice. If Metalic Sound with the DSL combination was great in the descriptions, it's just sad to see it not worth a damn post implimentation. But this whole matk thing was a real bummer with everything. When all of our skills and all we've ever known was surrounded in Dex, and then they throw Matk things at us instead of Atk? What a curve ball to a class that's already taken a bunch of sh*t.

Let's not even start the topic of how Wanderers are 8x< Maestros. =p (Windmill > Moonlight -- wth kind of BS is that?) (Harmonize > Lover -- god item killer compared to mdef? lol.omg.rly?)

--To stay on topic-- The whole not stacking thing seems to be a horrible thing, making a lot of the performer class skills useless.. (Swing Dance being an example) So even if a party of 5 performers, which sounds stupid in all cases and scenarios, those 5, and the AB-- and then 6 more members get the benefits of sac5? Come on.. geez RO.
__________________
Classic: After School // Where's Kaite? // t r a s h ?
Renewal: Ping-Chan_YM

♫♪ ♥'s:
댄스: Dual Life -- 라니아: Just Go
Rihanna: Stay (Feat. Mikky Ekko)
amerlia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 03:35 PM   #8
BrittyKitty
Poporing
 
BrittyKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Alberta
Posts: 245
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Idkmybff?
Class: Wanderer

Send a message via MSN to BrittyKitty
Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Quote:
Originally Posted by amerlia View Post

--To stay on topic-- The whole not stacking thing seems to be a horrible thing, making a lot of the performer class skills useless.. (Swing Dance being an example) So even if a party of 5 performers, which sounds stupid in all cases and scenarios, those 5, and the AB-- and then 6 more members get the benefits of sac5? Come on.. geez RO.
I'm pretty piffed about this. I enjoy my wanderer regardless, but there is a ridiculous amount of fixing and improving to be done to the class in whole. The fact that Sooooo many 3rd classes are OP and then with like 12 wandereres in a party it doesnt even HELP. With 5+ wanderers or Maestros we should be fcking unstoppable. -.-
__________________


[<3][x]
BrittyKitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 03:41 PM   #9
~viridia~
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,141

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

You are unstoppable, a party of 12 wanderers? I'd just sit down and cry at all the kawaii
~viridia~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 03:55 PM   #10
BrittyKitty
Poporing
 
BrittyKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Alberta
Posts: 245
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Idkmybff?
Class: Wanderer

Send a message via MSN to BrittyKitty
Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~viridia~ View Post
You are unstoppable, a party of 12 wanderers? I'd just sit down and cry at all the kawaii
LMAO. Thanks Viri. Kinda true
__________________


[<3][x]
BrittyKitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 04:38 PM   #11
Jayed
Tirades' Princess
 
Jayed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 4,650
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Volkiba
Class: Genetic

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Quote:
Originally Posted by amerlia View Post
@Jayed-- You're right. Some sort of damaging skill would be nice. If Metalic Sound with the DSL combination was great in the descriptions, it's just sad to see it not worth a damn post implimentation. But this whole matk thing was a real bummer with everything.
Honestly I don't even want to see Metallic Sound kill people so much as do like 10k damage with a very short cool down, just so that it can be used to siphon 1k SP fairly repeatedly, as an offensive/support tactic. Or maybe even up the SP drain from 10% of damage to 20%, and ensure the skill does ~5k in WoE, for that 1k sp siphon.

Offensive styled support is really the flavor of this class, with skills like DSL, slow grace, and Dazzler. Just doing everything you can to disable and harass people (much like stalker and sorcerer). Bard was always more ally buff and dancer more enemy de-buff (honestly I think they stole this from final fantasy tactics).

12 performer party is so impractical that I am not worried about the cap being 5. The thing that concerns me is a lot of these chorus and skills look like they were balanced around the idea of "omg 12 performer party" and were given such a small bonus per performer. Almost every chorus needs to be buffed to excellent potential at 5 people.
__________________
iRO Yggdrasil

Last edited by Jayed; 06-19-2011 at 04:43 PM.
Jayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2011, 07:16 PM   #12
Akin
Stapo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 729
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Arashikage
Class: Maestro

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Well the patch notes for their changes to some of the chorus skills (including Great Echo) state that they are changing the bonus for additional performers. Let's hope they all get the buffs they need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~viridia~ View Post
You are unstoppable, a party of 12 wanderers? I'd just sit down and cry at all the kawaii
LOL. The really sad part is, if one of them uses DSL, the rest become useless until she can wake up the others.

Just watch, when they bring the DSL change to iRO and it will work again in PvM, it will still affect party members...
__________________
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Akin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 07:05 PM   #13
Marloe
Drops
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 95
Server: iRO Chaos
Class: Minstrel

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

Was the observed atk speed bonus from Dance capped at 5 performers, too? My read on that is just the game deciding max bonus for fixed cast to be 50%, not max bonus from chorus at 5. If so, might be likely that the other chorus skills can still go up to the "full" 10 additional performer bonus, but I appreciate you taking the time to find this out.

Support Chorus Skills need to affect players outside of party, imo. If we can get that and the change to skill stacking in the proposed balance update, Sinking Melody will convincingly replace metallic as sp lockdown (and it's harder to dodge!) According to the translation, sinking will only hit enemies, so I'm looking forward to it having effective targeting.

I really hope DSL usable in pvm means they've disabled its allied effect.
Marloe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2011, 09:44 PM   #14
Akin
Stapo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 729
Server: iRO Chaos
Guild: Arashikage
Class: Maestro

Default Re: Dances with Wargs & Sacrement

I don't know about the aspd bonus, but the sp cost of the skill was also capped at 5 performers (more performers didn't help lower it). That makes me think that the skill itself is capped at 5.

I didn't get to test other chorus skills though. DWW may have been capped just because of the fixed cast reduction.
__________________
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Akin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 PM.

Page generated in 0.1249 seconds (94.49% PHP - 5.51% MySQL) with 14 queries

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
What are you doing reading down here?